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A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

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Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#51

Post by algorithms »

Wow. Just two days ago I wondered how the world would look like without being plastered with every kind of advertisment. I have to say I am so sick of going through my city and being bombarded with attention suckers from every direction. Same thing on the internet when I'm trying to read an article that is left aligned, makes up 20% of my monitor width and has blinking ads all around it.

I AM SICK OF IT. I would love to see a new movement to lower the amount of ads we are faced with each day and give us back our ability to concentrate on what's really important.

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#52

Post by Strilanc »

rhygar wrote: post #20

The cost of this is a loss of jobs for sign makers (and their suppliers), marketing agencies, and a loss of income for new businesses (and their suppliers) that want to make their presence known. Basically, the economy in that city is worse off overall as a result, and there are fewer jobs to go around.

The goal is not to create any type of job. You want jobs to be useful and create value for people. Otherwise you end up doing absurd things like hiring window breakers to create more window repair work.

Increasing the amount of advertising redistributes value instead of creating new value. It's a classic example of a prisoner's dilemma. Everyone does better individually by advertising more, but when everyone advertises more they do worse.

From the perspective of society, money spent on advertising is almost entirely wasted. It could be better spent on other things, like making air travel cheaper.

I know advertising does have a useful purpose: a mechanism to inform people about things they didn't know. But the amount of advertising necessary to achieve that purpose is minimal. Creating laws that limit advertising to that minimal amount is a net benefit to society.

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#53

Post by msbarnett »

ars wrote: post #47
rhizome wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes the business district look sleepy and quiet, rather than active and bustling. Only to people looking at pictures on the internet. When you're there, there's just as much commerce happening as ever. Note that Brazil is one of the few countries that was able to evade the global rape that the finanical industries committed over the past few years. What was the last thing you bought that was directly attributabl…

> What was the last thing you bought that was directly attributable to seeing a street advertisement at a location? You've never bought some food from a street vendor? Or gone in a coffee shop and bought a bagel? Or made a photocopy after seeing a shop on the street?

> You've never bought some food from a street vendor? Or gone in a coffee shop and bought a bagel? Or made a photocopy after seeing a shop on the street?

I've done all of those things, but never because of, or in a way that would have been altered by, the presence of advertising above said businesses.

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#54

Post by r00fus »

spodek wrote: post #46
rickyconnolly wrote: post #43

Dislike. Advertising is what gives cities their unique visual culture. We associate different typographic 'looks' with different cities. Where would Miami be without its bold, ostentatious signage? Where would New York City be without its iconic frankin gothic and gotham centered visual culture?

I remember hearing things like this before the indoor smoking ban a few years ago. People said it was part of what bars and clubs were for. In particular, New York City establishments said people who came in from the suburbs and brought money in would stop coming in. The ban was successful. A year or two later Hoboken passed a ban because people were increasingly going into the city for the cleaner indoor air they co…

Which is to say, some places like Las Vegas might not want to implement it.

However, it is the purview of government to legislate things like this to establish protection of the "commons".

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#55

Post by ars »

msbarnett wrote: post #53
ars wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What was the last thing you bought that was directly attributable to seeing a street advertisement at a location? You've never bought some food from a street vendor? Or gone in a coffee shop and bought a bagel? Or made a photocopy after seeing a shop on the street?

> You've never bought some food from a street vendor? Or gone in a coffee shop and bought a bagel? Or made a photocopy after seeing a shop on the street? I've done all of those things, but never because of, or in a way that would have been altered by, the presence of advertising above said businesses.

So if you are looking to make copies, and you see a shop with just the name "Kinko's" above it you would know to go in there?

Or starbucks? Those names don't in any way tell you what the business does. Without advertising above the shop you wouldn't have any idea what they sell.

Look at those photos again - the only thing they have is the name, with no indication about what those shops sell or do.

Should all small business have to advertise on TV until they have a household name?

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#56

Post by msbarnett »

ars wrote: post #55
msbarnett wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You've never bought some food from a street vendor? Or gone in a coffee shop and bought a bagel? Or made a photocopy after seeing a shop on the street? I've done all of those things, but never because of, or in a way that would have been altered by, the presence of advertising above said businesses.

So if you are looking to make copies, and you see a shop with just the name "Kinko's" above it you would know to go in there? Or starbucks? Those names don't in any way tell you what the business does. Without advertising above the shop you wouldn't have any idea what they sell. Look at those photos again - the only thing they have is the name, with no indication about what those shops sell or do. Should all small bu…

Kinkos doesn't need a sign above their store telling me it's a copy shop, nor does Tim Hortons need a billboard in the air above their local franchise telling me they sell coffee and donuts; they've successfully gotten that information to me in other mediums that are less visually intrusive upon my neighbourhood. But I frequent the Campus copy shop, not Kinkos, and their name "Campus Copy Shop" seems relatively unambiguous anyways.

Small businesses need not be able to afford a TV presence to advertise; indeed, I do not know what your neighbourhood is like, but in mine most small businesses already cannot afford large billboard-like signage on their stores and already rely upon simple names on their store-fronts. Their primary and most effective tool is, and always will be, positive word-of-mouth.

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#57

Post by vl »

spodek wrote: post #46
rickyconnolly wrote: post #43

Dislike. Advertising is what gives cities their unique visual culture. We associate different typographic 'looks' with different cities. Where would Miami be without its bold, ostentatious signage? Where would New York City be without its iconic frankin gothic and gotham centered visual culture?

I remember hearing things like this before the indoor smoking ban a few years ago. People said it was part of what bars and clubs were for. In particular, New York City establishments said people who came in from the suburbs and brought money in would stop coming in. The ban was successful. A year or two later Hoboken passed a ban because people were increasingly going into the city for the cleaner indoor air they co…

Hah, ironically Times Square is already zoned other way around - when new building owner wanted to reduce number of the billboards on the building, they couldn't because city quickly passed regulation to keep them up.

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#58

Post by zorked »

jacoblyles wrote: post #36

Looks like a Stalinesque ghost town.

São Paulo is one of the ugliest cities ever created by man. Being a Stalinesque ghost town is a huge step up from what they were before.

(and you only thought it looked like a ghost town because the pictures didn't include people in them)

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#59

Post by ars »

msbarnett wrote: post #56
ars wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if you are looking to make copies, and you see a shop with just the name "Kinko's" above it you would know to go in there? Or starbucks? Those names don't in any way tell you what the business does. Without advertising above the shop you wouldn't have any idea what they sell. Look at those photos again - the only thing they have is the name, with no indication about what those shops sell or do. Should all small bu…

Kinkos doesn't need a sign above their store telling me it's a copy shop, nor does Tim Hortons need a billboard in the air above their local franchise telling me they sell coffee and donuts; they've successfully gotten that information to me in other mediums that are less visually intrusive upon my neighbourhood. But I frequent the Campus copy shop, not Kinkos, and their name "Campus Copy Shop" seems relatively unamb…

> they've successfully gotten that information to me in other mediums

How nice for you - and even nicer for those places with large advertising budgets. But that is not the case for everyone. I don't need a huge billboard above a shop. But some ads that show what they do are quite helpful.

> "Campus Copy Shop"

So you suggest that all shops name themself as basically what they do? And what about a grocery store that has a copier? How would anyone find out about it unless they already go there?

> Their primary and most effective tool is, and always will be, positive word-of-mouth.

That's great when you live there, and an utter failure for visitors.

If I'm walking down a Manhattan street and I want to make a copy I'm looking for a picture of a copier or a sign that says "Copies made here".

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#60

Post by emp_ »

ars wrote: post #55
msbarnett wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You've never bought some food from a street vendor? Or gone in a coffee shop and bought a bagel? Or made a photocopy after seeing a shop on the street? I've done all of those things, but never because of, or in a way that would have been altered by, the presence of advertising above said businesses.

So if you are looking to make copies, and you see a shop with just the name "Kinko's" above it you would know to go in there? Or starbucks? Those names don't in any way tell you what the business does. Without advertising above the shop you wouldn't have any idea what they sell. Look at those photos again - the only thing they have is the name, with no indication about what those shops sell or do. Should all small bu…

On the video posted on the top comment, you see "Xerox" on top of a shop, this is the brazilian for "Copy & Print", so this is still allowed somewhat.
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