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Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

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Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#51

Post by shkkmo »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #27
fallingknife wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intent always matters. And it is absolutely plausible that a rental car could be marked stolen through a bureaucratic error. If fact, in this case, it's more than plausible. It's pretty much inconceivable that a rental car company would intend to just say "fuck you in particular" to a few customers and try to put them in jail. Those customers should obviously get their judgment money, and Hertz should pay a heavy pri…

That's an assertion of belief, not a statement of fact. It's plainly visible that current policies have led to a rash of false police reports (the 168 MUSD judgement is more than sufficient proof), and there is no need why society should put up with the carelessness of Hertz. The problem is pervasive enough to go beyond isolated cases (after all they were slapped with an 8-digit civil fine). Civil law deals with dama…

> the 168 MUSD judgement is more than sufficient proof

This is a settlement, not a judgement.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#52

Post by pitaj »

KerrAvon wrote: post #40
pitaj wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does imprisoning someone help the victims in any way? People have some really fucked up ideas of justice. Justice should focus first on making victims whole, then on rehabilitating the perpetrators to prevent victimization in the future. Imprisonment serves neither of those goals.

Do we know that jail time for corporate executives does not serve as a deterrent?

Personally, I think if you're the one advocating for locking people in cells, you should be the one proving that it's effective.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#53

Post by chickenpotpie »

nickff wrote: post #37
avgDev wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, which may be unpopular, a CEO who earns many times more than a regular employee should ensure that there are policies in place that prevent a regular employee or the "system" ruining a customers life. They should be held individually responsible if it can be proved in court that they ignored the issues.

Should the president of the USA be held responsible for some department of the US government ruining a citizen's life (which happens all the time)? What about a state governor, should they be responsible for all the state's agencies? How about a mayor whose police force or other department acts poorly?

If the president of the United States is knowingly making a profit from the actions of a government employee and they do not interfer, then yes they should go to jail. The line is murkier when someone is just doing a bad job, but if someone is knowingly making money from illegal behavior they can easily put a stop to they should go to prison.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#54

Post by halpmeh »

fallingknife wrote: post #14
HarryHirsch wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But... intent - Hertz had no intent to have customers locked up or threatened by out-of-control cops, so it's all good. When it comes to life-and-limb matters like this intent really shouldn't matter because it's nothing more than a get-out-of-jail card for executives who couldn't care less about the impact of their policies. No one important at Wells-Fargo went to jail either - they set policies which were expected…

Intent always matters. And it is absolutely plausible that a rental car could be marked stolen through a bureaucratic error. If fact, in this case, it's more than plausible. It's pretty much inconceivable that a rental car company would intend to just say "fuck you in particular" to a few customers and try to put them in jail. Those customers should obviously get their judgment money, and Hertz should pay a heavy pri…

People should also be punished for gross negligence. Hertz filed hundreds of false police reports. After the first few, they should have updated their system. The fact that they allowed the continual filing of false police reports is a willful disregard for the safety of others.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#55

Post by pitaj »

rtepopbe wrote: post #42
pitaj wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does imprisoning someone help the victims in any way? People have some really fucked up ideas of justice. Justice should focus first on making victims whole, then on rehabilitating the perpetrators to prevent victimization in the future. Imprisonment serves neither of those goals.

It depends a lot on what kind of crime you're dealing with. This isn't a matter of teaching the executives of Hertz that no, they don't need to commit crimes to survive, and how to access alternative means of survival, and all that. They did this because they were greedy, lazy, and they knew they wouldn't suffer much for it. When you're dealing with white-collar sorts of crimes like this, deterrence is a thing.

Prison is not the right fit. If you want deterrence, make them pay directly towards the victims. Put them on house arrest. Put them on probation. Ban them from holding a managerial or executive role.

There are plenty of alternatives that don't involve locking people in cells - and that are probably more effective a deterrent.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#56

Post by lostmsu »

vorpalhex wrote: post #23
jmyeet wrote: post #15

Let's compare this to China where 2 executives were sentenced to death (and others to life sentences) for their role in selling tainted formula (resulting in infant deaths) and concealing it [1] or Jack Ma (of Alibaba) who just disappeared for 3 months [2]. It should be a legal requirement that a human review and sign off on any complaint about a stolen car to police. That personal (and company) should be held crimin…

Let's maybe not copycat a country that abducts people who make gentle criticism of it's flawed banking system.

One should be disputing individual policies. Policies are not all-or-nothing deals.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#57

Post by CSMastermind »

I travel quite a bit for both business and personal reasons.

This means I'm driving a rental car for 100+ days a year.

I've tried all the major rental brands and Hertz is a terrible experience even when they're not calling the police on you by mistake. Their systems don't work quite right, there's a bunch of hidden fees, and their customer service is lacking at best.

I swear by Enterprise and purchasing the extra insurance to cover any damages. They've done right by me as a customer across many different cities and locations.

I know that some people are always going to just buy whatever is the cheapest or whatever deal gets them the most points with credit card or whatever. And that seems to be where Hertz makes their money.

But for anyone willing to pay a little more for a good experience and less stress Enterprise is my recommendation.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#58

Post by maerF0x0 »

> pending 30 days in jail, where she suffered a miscarriage.

Ok this is horrific, and Hertz should be ashamed of their behavior. Now, we dont have any proof the arrest or jail time caused the miscarriage, but to the extent we believe it did, can we also talk for a minute about why our executive branch/jail system is so hard on people (of both sexes btw) such that physiological distress occurs such as miscarriages or suicides?

It's completely unnecessary, I'd dare say detrimental, to getting rehabilitated.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#59

Post by shkkmo »

xwolfi wrote: post #39
jakelazaroff wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A rental car company" didn't do anything. Humans working at a rental car company did. Maybe it was a "bureaucratic error" that fraudulently reported the cars as stolen. That bureaucracy didn't spontaneously emerge from dust. Humans built it. Why should humans not face legal repercussions for the havoc they've wreaked on their victims' lives?

Because the havoc they ve wreaked could have been avoided, if only the police itself, a public service, behaved appropriately. Declaring a car stolen by mistake shouldnt be the end of the world. One day someone with the same name as me committed an offense and I was wrongly given to the police of my country, and it took 5 minutes to clear me and nothing happened.

It Hertz didn't intend to ruin people's lives, they would withdraw the police reports when confronted with their mistakes. Instead, the company prohibits that because:

> A Hertz spokesperson told the Philadelphia Inquirer in 2020 that the company has no “mechanism” to withdraw reports and does not do so because “In the rare instances this happens, if you report a crime, and you later say it didn’t happen, then law enforcement tends not to believe you if you retract it or say you were mistaken,” the spokesperson said. “Hertz’s continued good relationship with law enforcement is important.” [0]

It seems like there is plenty of intent there. The intent to continue lieing to police to protect Hertz's reputation at severe cost to Hertz's victims.

[0] https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2022/04/11/hertz-stolen...

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#60

Post by [deleted] »

shkkmo wrote: post #51
HarryHirsch wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an assertion of belief, not a statement of fact. It's plainly visible that current policies have led to a rash of false police reports (the 168 MUSD judgement is more than sufficient proof), and there is no need why society should put up with the carelessness of Hertz. The problem is pervasive enough to go beyond isolated cases (after all they were slapped with an 8-digit civil fine). Civil law deals with dama…

> the 168 MUSD judgement is more than sufficient proof This is a settlement, not a judgement.

[deleted]
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