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Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

karlsnotes.com

51–60 of 230 posts

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#51
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I think the ideal system would include both. Maybe a digital system that is periodically (say once a year) transferred to tape and stored in a secure facility like the Svalbard Seed Vault.

> Maybe a digital system that is periodically (say once a year) transferred to tape and stored in a secure facility This has been standard procedure (not at Svalbard, obviously, but at one or more secure offsite facilities) for every critical data system I’ve ever personally encountered in regulated industry, though rotations are usually weekly/monthly rather than yearly.

> This has been standard procedure

Are they testing the backups and restoring from them regularly, because if they aren't there isn't any backup happening.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#52
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple independent studies show there are vulnerabilities in their system.

Not to say everything is perfect, but I'd like to see those credible studies.

Google search has many. Take your pick.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#53
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I think the ideal system would include both. Maybe a digital system that is periodically (say once a year) transferred to tape and stored in a secure facility like the Svalbard Seed Vault.

> Maybe a digital system that is periodically (say once a year) transferred to tape and stored in a secure facility This has been standard procedure (not at Svalbard, obviously, but at one or more secure offsite facilities) for every critical data system I’ve ever personally encountered in regulated industry, though rotations are usually weekly/monthly rather than yearly.

This is good to know. I've never had the privilege of working on such a system so it is nice to know that this kind of thing is actually happening. Especially when government preparation for any potential pandemic seemed to be piss poor right across the board.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#55
post #8

Until there's a solar flare and instead it's just cost them 1640 years. Or a catastrophic computer virus. Or any number of black swan disaster scenarios. I'm a tech guy and I do think that this is good news. I just hope that the people in charge of designing these systems have also thought about what happens if these systems catastrophically fail. And that measuring things like '820 years saved' are only really claim…

So much government data is temporal. Many already have strict archiving guidelines that mandate destroying certainly classes of documents after some number of years... many are single-digit. Nobody needs a copy of which city councilman voted to approve new speed bumps on Main St. 20 years ago, or your first 2 rejected applications for permits to remodel your bathroom. Most archivists are pretty aware of the problems with digital storage and know how to mitigate it.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#57
post #8

Until there's a solar flare and instead it's just cost them 1640 years. Or a catastrophic computer virus. Or any number of black swan disaster scenarios. I'm a tech guy and I do think that this is good news. I just hope that the people in charge of designing these systems have also thought about what happens if these systems catastrophically fail. And that measuring things like '820 years saved' are only really claim…

This highlights one of the things I've recognized, for a long time the digital existed beside the paper, the computer often had problems and people knew things would have problems so they would always have a manual paper backup. "The HR computer is on the fritz and can get paychecks out, well wheel out the file folders, and get everyone in HR some ballpoint pens because they're here until midnight", but nowadays digi…

> if a backhoe decides to dig through the fiber line, congratulations your shop just got shut down until it works agian. … Back in the day if the power went out you could open up a receipt book and a ledger and keep taking payments until it came back on, now you can sit and twiddle your thumbs.

This is nothing a good UPS and a standby 5G modem couldn’t handle. Digital systems can be made reliable and redundant, but most people don’t want to go through the effort (or expense) to make it happen.

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#59
post #17

Saving 820 years is great, but it would be nice to define it better. From the article I not sure if they mean 820 man years in total or man years per year or something else. It would be useful to know how much energy was spent to achieve this e.g. of they spent 8000 man years to achieve this it would change the perspective. Edit: grammar

Quoted post unavailable.

[deleted]

Re: Estonia saved its citizens 820 years by moving public services online

#60
Along the same lines, I found India's Aadhar system to be pretty extraordinary. If you can put your civil liberties concerns aside (and to be clear, I don't think you should), Aadhar has made govt services in India several orders of magnitude more efficient and fraud resistant. I recently sold a piece of property in India and it took literally 10 minutes to do the transaction at a local district office. You just go to a place and get a scan while signing a document that says you are transferring the property. That handles everything ... changing the owner in the public registry, etc.

Compare that to buying a house in the US where you need to use all kinds of third party title insurers etc., because you can't necessarily be sure the person selling you the land actually has ownership of the land in the registry at the moment you are doing the sale.

Also, payment systems in India charge merchants something like 0.1% or less, while credit card companies charge merchants 3-5% in the US. In India everything is cheap because online transactions are very secure ... your Aadhar identity allows you to generate one time codes that are sent to vendors to authorize payments. Even if the one time code is stolen, it can only be used one time. Contrast that with the USA where if someone just gets your social security number and address, they can often impersonate you and charge thousands of dollars against your identity. That insecurity has spawned billions of dollars of costs in the US economy and enriched Visa and Mastercard. Its dead weight on the economy.

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