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Habits of Highly Overrated People (2013)

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Re: Habits of Highly Overrated People (2013)

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any interaction with another human at work is politics

Yes, but derisively referring any interaction with another human at work as “office politics” is the problem.

It can turn into office politics fast. Maybe you say the wrong thing and now you and your coworker have an awkward tension.

IMO it's almost never worth trying to make friends with your coworkers. Be nice, be helpful, and do a good job but keep your friends and work life separate.

Re: Habits of Highly Overrated People (2013)

#52
post #19

These articles come out with some regularity, and yet no one ever says, "Yep! That's totally me! I'm a non contributing zero but I've made a living at making others think I add to the team!" Everyone knows people like this, but no one is one.

First: there is of course an incentive not to admit this. Second: I do believe that many people on HN really deeply care about technology/hacking topics and have detest for office politics. On the other hand, the people that the article discuss are good at office politics/marketing themselves and often don't have such a deep knowledge about programming. Thus, I would indeed assume that the typical HN reader/writer le…

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Re: Habits of Highly Overrated People (2013)

#53
I did some of these things and I slowly getting over them, thanks to some very generous colleagues who can overlook my downsides.

To be honest, some of these problems are less the problem of an individual but the environment - where we constantly have to or we want to point out the value that we provide.

Some things are even more painful, and I'm glad I'm recovering from them, like over-communicating. Some people have so little to provide in terms of value that talking becomes the main output - and that usually slows down projects.

I'm also recovering from being bossy after having worked with managers who were basically never bossy at all - it's such an important trait, yet relatively rare.

Re: Habits of Highly Overrated People (2013)

#54
> Seriously. These things are a whole lot more transparent than the people who do them think they are

Has anyone seen articles on how to effectively manage/coach people with these habits? Extrinsic motivation tactics tend not to work, and appeals to intrinsic motivators are often met hard with #6 and #7.

Re: Habits of Highly Overrated People (2013)

#55
To be honest, I don't often encounter this behavior in developers. In more management or leadership position, you can see it though.

Developers have concrete tasks to work on, what I often see is simply some of them can't really figure out how to complete the task if it's not layed out to them in every detail, and they can be very inefficient at overcoming any problem along the way.

The example of the developer stuck because of the clock is a good one. From my experience, this person isn't faking work, they really are stuck due to this problem and can't make decisions as to how to get past it, and don't know how to proceed.

Knowing that the clock doesn't matter and they can safely ignore it for example, is not something they know, or in this case, why it's wrong and how to fix it, they might also not know. They're stuck because they have no clue how to figure it out and need help.

Ya, it also means they're not as good as another developer that has a much deeper understanding and knows all this, but I wouldn't call a less knowledgeable or less talentented developer someone that's pretending to work or overrated.

Now you do have the kind of developer that's all talk, no walk. They are the ones that similarly don't know how to do things, or do things well, but they're very confident none the less, criticize others, and always talk as if they know and they're awesome.

Again though, I feel these developers everyone knows that they're all talk no walk, because other devs can see the kind of code they wrote or don't, what their real output is, etc. That said, to management sometimes it might not be as obvious.

But where things get real tricky is in management or leadership roles. Because in those positions, your job is to simply make decisions and guide others. But since you don't actually produce work, if you actually don't make any decisions, and actually don't help guide others in any valuable way, but still appear to be, the people actually doing the work will still have to figure out what to do and decide how to do it. And it becomes very easy to take the credit from them, as you were the "leader" or "manager".

And even when you're good at making the right decisions for the project or team, or company, and are good at guiding others, it's very hard to measure how much you contributed truly, what would have happened if you hadn't for example, it's almost impossible to know.

In those positions, it becomes almost about how well you can market that you did in fact have influence and were critical to success. And this is true even if you are really good, because it will be very hard for others to assess your real impact, so if you can't market it to them and make them know it, being good won't be enough.

It's a tricky situation, but it means that leaders and managers, both good and bad, will all be doing some form of what this article talks about, since they have too.

Another challenge in those roles, is that the impact of a single decision can be huge, but then for months you might not have to make any other decisions, and so you need to appear "busy" none the less. For example, choosing what is the next project the team will pick up, or that a new service will be created to deliver on X. Thats just one decision, but it's a huge decision, the impact of that choice is dramatic. Yet maybe you spent 2 months thinking about it, then took the decision, in that 2 months, you showed no sign of work, you were just thinking about what's the best way to proceed. And after having made the decision, there might be months where that's it, you've got nothing else to do but wait on other people to design and implement the new service X, or to deliver on project Z. Again, what do you do in the meantime? How do you not appear like you're no longer useful?

Re: Habits of Highly Overrated People (2013)

#56
post #29
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's the CEO and a huge voting share owner of his companies, why would he need to pretend to be working? Also, it's probably hard to make breakthroughs in space travel and electric vehicles doing fake work. There's been a huge amount of leaks, rumors, and reports about Elon from within and from without his companies. He's been accused of a lot of things, but fake working has not been one of them.

The breakthroughs were done by his employees not Musk or do you praise Pope Julius II. for the Sistine chapel ceiling? BTW were is the breakthrough in Teslas?

Elons breakthroughs are largely financial, and I don't like the guy but I admit this for sure.

Elon is the kind of guy who can gather $Billions from the market year over year, each time promising that this is the last time and the company will be a wild success afterwards.

Remember when Model 3 factory was all that Tesla needed in 2014? But then full self driving, Cybertruck, battery swap, AI robot that plugs in the cord for you, Model Y, Tesla Semi, Solar City buyout, Solar Shingles, Dojo Supercomputer, $35k Model 3, 4680 cells, etc etc.

It's the same thing year over year. He brings up a topic without necessarily promising that it's coming. He uses it to get another $Billion in loans and equity. He fails upwards, if a thing fails (see battery swap, solar Shingles, full self driving) it still raised equity / bonds and gets him more investors the next year.

Re: Habits of Highly Overrated People (2013)

#57

Man the slackware clock thing is so common. “Is that in confluence?” burns me up regularly. Things like how to delete a file in git. Or revert a file. As the number of tools required to build software continues to grow there are more and more opportunities for people to play dumb and act dopey.

I don't see how that can work. If someone does that even once you're going to lose respect for them. Twice and you're going to fire them for just not being smart enough.

In a sufficiently large organization with legal, hr, compliance, etc. it can be brutal to get someone fired for incompetence. Often they will start looking at the manager rather than the employee. Especially if you inherit a whole team of these folks and want to purge. Sadly it is often easier to just spoon feed these types of people than get them fired.

Re: Habits of Highly Overrated People (2013)

#58
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average HN reader is highly overrated for other reasons. > have detest for office politics The problem is that many people on HN believe any interaction with someone with an MBA, marketing background, manager, etc. is “office politics.”

I think the problem is that people think that all office politics is necessarily bad.

I can't think of examples of positive activities in a workplace being best labelled office politics. Help me out?

I understand politics, outside of government, to suggest deception or manipulation with hidden motives.

Re: Habits of Highly Overrated People (2013)

#59

These articles come out with some regularity, and yet no one ever says, "Yep! That's totally me! I'm a non contributing zero but I've made a living at making others think I add to the team!" Everyone knows people like this, but no one is one.

I have known many folks like this. I have found they don't really last long, in the evironments in which I worked.

I've definitely not been one, but I have been in ultra-high-performing environments, in a Japanese company (where they watch everything), so it became habit.

Even so, I often feel like I was the dumbest kid in the room, because I was around some damn smart people.

But I do find that making a negative posting, is a great way to get "engagement," and it's fairly common. There's lots of "Y'all are doing it wrong" posts, out there, compared to "This is why I think what I do, works well" posts.

Basically, we reward negativity.

Re: Habits of Highly Overrated People (2013)

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average HN reader is highly overrated for other reasons. > have detest for office politics The problem is that many people on HN believe any interaction with someone with an MBA, marketing background, manager, etc. is “office politics.”

Any interaction with another human at work is politics

Any interaction with another human is politics.
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