Live data from Hacker News

Free Ross Ulbricht

freeross.org

51–60 of 121 posts

Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#51

I think people who facilitate the sale of community destroying hard drugs deserve punishment, but this trial was a farce. The media ran ceaseless stories making it sound like he was selling guns to terrorists and child abuse material. There's no way he could have been fairly judged by a jury with how prevalent that type of reporting was.

Hoping it's not too much of an imposition, I'd like to pose a series of rhetorical questions about criminological policy, which may not be new territory, but I hope will, nonetheless, elevate the discussion

What does 'deserve' mean?

How do you distinguish it from vengeance?

If the idea is that it has deterrent value, how do we measure that?

Also why are we trying to deter? What's the social cost of the behavior his platform helped facilitate?

How much did his being a party to that behavior contribute to its prevalence? Is there any evidence suggesting the behavior wouldn't have been enacted through alternative intermediaries?

Most importantly: Is there any unintended secondary cost to society, as a result of bringing punitive repercussions on intermediaries that are incidentally party to an undesired behavior?

In Policy Analysis one often sees a pattern where punitive policies exacerbate either the undesired behavior or associated antisocial behaviors

It's counter-intuitive but the correlation between criminalization and increased antisocial activity — and indeed net social cost — is quite strong.

In my view the only sensible approach to criminology is "consequentialism" with all punishments being informed by therapeutic approaches to reduce future harm — or "Harm Reduction"

When we allow ourselves to be guided by "scale balancing" rationales, it's just too easy for that to turn into sadism and worse "mob" sadism — where any view of proportionality (vague and aspirational to begin with) is abandoned until some "Lord of the Flies" moment of cruelty provokes social reflection.

Anyway thanks for considering my perspective.

Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#52

Several posts on this thread (as well as TFA) have suggested the hitman for hire was slander to paint Ulbricht in a bad light. This is not true. > At the sentencing hearing, the district court resolved several disputed issues of fact. For example, because Ulbricht contested his responsibility for the five commissioned murders for hire, the district court found by a preponderance of the evidence that Ulbricht did in f…

This. While I do think his sentence was excessive that man was in no way innocent.

Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#54
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't this guy try to hire a hitman ?

According to Wikipedia, Ulbricht allegedly tried to hire a hitman to murder at least five people, but this wasn't actually something he was formally charged with at trial. > Federal prosecutors alleged that Ulbricht had paid $730,000 in murder-for-hire deals targeting at least five people,[27] allegedly because they threatened to reveal Ulbricht's Silk Road enterprise.[36] Prosecutors believe no contracted killing ac…

It should be noted that the killing was conspiraed by FBI Agents where some of them also stealed a bunch of bitcoin for their own interest. It's nowhere mentioned cause it would put the Feds in a bad light

Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#55
He attempted to kill multiple people, and was completely indifferent to the harms caused by his marketplace. Indeed he profited massively from them.

Prison is the right place for Ross Ulbricht.

Just because he committed all his crimes using a computer doesn't mean he should be let off for these crimes.

Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You conveniently redefined what most anyone would consider not a hard drug as a hard drug to make your point.

Does it really matter what "most" think? From the medical point of view, ethanol is a hard drug. It was actually defined as one in an old USSR government standard, but that definition was dropped later (in the 1970s or thereabouts IIRC).

Yourself and others are missing the point. US law here isn’t “what was considered a hard drug in pre-1970s USSR”. And regardless of what the medical point of view might be, alcohol isn’t classed as a hard drug in US law.

Frankly though, even this straw man argument is moot because it is illegal to sell alcohol without a license too. So regardless of what substance was on sale, this market place was facilitating illegal transactions.

As for whether 40 years is a bit harsh, that’s a lot more subjective. But it doesn’t further the conversation to shift definitions of substances when they’re already legally defined.

Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#57

Several posts on this thread (as well as TFA) have suggested the hitman for hire was slander to paint Ulbricht in a bad light. This is not true. > At the sentencing hearing, the district court resolved several disputed issues of fact. For example, because Ulbricht contested his responsibility for the five commissioned murders for hire, the district court found by a preponderance of the evidence that Ulbricht did in f…

I get the "Free Ross" campaigners are trying to persuade us, and I think his parents are largely behind it which I sympathize with, but the manner in which they gloss over FIVE ATTEMPTED MURDERS goes beyond mere bias.

Keep Ross In

Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#58
post #35

It was totally a political trial with many exaggerations and the government trying to "set an example". - First-time offender - All non-violent charges - Two life sentences plus 40 years without parole >Ross Ulbricht is condemned to die in prison for creating an anonymous e-commerce website called Silk Road. An entrepreneur passionate about free markets and privacy, he was 26 when he made the site. He was never prose…

“The Silk Road was fine” -HN

While there are certainly problematic aspects of dark web markets, society do get some benefits. No physical contact between sellers and buyers, which reduces violence. Reviews of sellers and products makes it significantly easier to purchase safer drugs (for some drugs, adulterants and/or unpredictable potency are a bigger risk than the drug itself). This translates to fewer visits to the ER or morgue.

Edit: My personal opinion is that we should rid ourselves of the demand for dark web markets by regulating drugs. The regulations should focus on harm reduction, both for the users and society as a whole.

Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#59

Several posts on this thread (as well as TFA) have suggested the hitman for hire was slander to paint Ulbricht in a bad light. This is not true. > At the sentencing hearing, the district court resolved several disputed issues of fact. For example, because Ulbricht contested his responsibility for the five commissioned murders for hire, the district court found by a preponderance of the evidence that Ulbricht did in f…

I get the "Free Ross" campaigners are trying to persuade us, and I think his parents are largely behind it which I sympathize with, but the manner in which they gloss over FIVE ATTEMPTED MURDERS goes beyond mere bias. Keep Ross In

If his parents are largely behind it they may not be able to even accept that he was capable of such a thing. A sad thought.

Re: Free Ross Ulbricht

#60

I think people who facilitate the sale of community destroying hard drugs deserve punishment, but this trial was a farce. The media ran ceaseless stories making it sound like he was selling guns to terrorists and child abuse material. There's no way he could have been fairly judged by a jury with how prevalent that type of reporting was.

> I think people who facilitate the sale of community destroying hard drugs deserve punishment

I'd argue Instagram has done more damage to human relationships and communities than MDMA, despite the former being around for much longer.

Really, when we look at the forces "destroying our communities", it's not so much the drugs as the the reasons people take them - alienation caused by post-modern industrial capitalism, face-to-face interaction replaced by screen time, a society that values "success" over happiness, health and connection... the drugs are a symptom.

If you take morphine because you have a broken bone, the issue is the broken bone.

If people drink themselves to death because they are lonely, the issue is the loneliness.

Post reply on HN