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The ethics of reclining airplane seats

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Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#51

Post by i_am_jl »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #21
dawnerd wrote: post #5

I’m in camp if they give you the option you have to assume the person in front will fully recline. No point in getting mad over it. If you want or need more space just get the premium seats if it means that much to you.

I'm hearing that because I'm 6'6" I should either be able to pay for premium or just never fly. That's a good excuse to get out an in-laws wedding next summer - I'll run it by my wife.

I'm of a similar height and you're leaving out the third option. Fly and suffer. Sit like a GSD with hip dysplasia.

But in all seriousness, you're not used to it by now? Paying more for clothes that fit properly, a car that fits without hair brushing on the headliner or knees in the steering column, air mattresses, real mattresses, tents, bicycles, shoes, etc.

Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#52

Post by sofixa »

legitster wrote: post #42

Was this a problem the internet invented? It used to be that no one seemingly cared and everyone reclined their seat as soon as takeoff was over. I guess the modern era is creating new unwritten social contracts. For what it's worth - I never mind. I get to partake in the miracle of flight. And they only give you, like, 3 inches of recline anyway. Just take it.

I think you might be comparing different things and making the wrong conclusion. Before "the modern era and Internet" there was much more place on airplanes' seats. Squeezing every millimetre of space is a new(-ish, it's been what, 10-15 years now) trend born out of low cost competitors doing that and severely undercutting legacy carriers, who replicate. So if everyone reclined 30 years ago, it still probably resulted in more space available for everyone compared to today, even in a non-reclined configuration.

Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#53

Post by njarboe »

shp0ngle wrote: post #33
bell-cot wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet people continue to vote their purchasing dollars for too-tight seat spacing - because the cost of roomier seats is for-sure and up-front. Vs. hope springs eternal on the reality that you'll get.

The options are usually either “dirt cheap economy” or “crazy expensive business”. For some reason business class is often like 5x 6x the economy! Why is there no middle class?

Not on Southwest, which I generally prefer for other reasons, but United almost always has seats with about 6" of extra leg room available to upgrade to for 10%-20% more, as an option. I often pay for this. For the comfort itself and to support such an option. I just don't like the fact that the easy thing to sort over on flight search engines is price and airlines like United now often have the cheapest seats the middle ones.

Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#54

Post by waqf »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #37
jibe wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m hearing that you should recline your seat if you need more space.

Now we're in a prisoners dilemma, aren't we?

No, we're just in an equilibrium where everyone reclines. To be a PD it would have to be better for everyone if nobody reclined.

We're in, perhaps, a tyranny of the majority, but those are everywhere. As I'm sure you've already noticed if you're 6'6".

Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#55

Post by scelerat »

I'm not old by my own standards, but I've been riding on planes for close to 50 years and I feel like this has only emerged as a topic of debate relatively recently. It's always been a downer when someone in front of you reclines, but that's just how it goes on an airplane. If I wanted lots of room, I would have taken the train.

Have airline seats gotten tighter (they've always been tight as far as my taller-than-average frame is concerned)? Are people getting bigger? Are people becoming less tolerant of others?

Put me firmly in the "The ability to recline implies a right to recline" camp.

Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#56

Post by drivingmenuts »

legitster wrote: post #42

Was this a problem the internet invented? It used to be that no one seemingly cared and everyone reclined their seat as soon as takeoff was over. I guess the modern era is creating new unwritten social contracts. For what it's worth - I never mind. I get to partake in the miracle of flight. And they only give you, like, 3 inches of recline anyway. Just take it.

The problem was invented by airlines squeezing passengers into sardine-appropriate seating arrangements.

Voicing the problem has been amplified due to the internet.

Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#57

Post by Lio »

vidoc wrote: post #3

great article! I'm looking forward to 'ethics of armrest' to understand the dynamics at play for the one that is shared with your neighbor.

Everyone knows, Window gets an armrest and a wall. Middle gets two armrests. Aisle gets an armrest and a little bit of extra leg. We’re not fucking animals! We live in a society!

-Jim Jefferies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFx1Cpxpx1E

Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#58

Post by sofixa »

shkkmo wrote: post #32
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hearing that because I'm 6'6" I should either be able to pay for premium or just never fly. That's a good excuse to get out an in-laws wedding next summer - I'll run it by my wife.

So many things are biased in favor of tall people, I have no problem with them having to pay more for a larger seat rather than externalizing those costs onto everyone else.

As a tall person (not even that tall, 190cm) I'm going to have to vehemently disagree.

Car, airplane, train bus, metro, etc. seats and space available are designed for shorter people. Doors are sometimes too short (I've taken multiple violent hits to the head due to this abroad). Clothes are harder to find.

Do you have any other counter examples? Maybe i only see when I'm inconveniences and miss when things are made for me.

Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#59

Post by legitster »

waqf wrote: post #50
legitster wrote: post #42

Was this a problem the internet invented? It used to be that no one seemingly cared and everyone reclined their seat as soon as takeoff was over. I guess the modern era is creating new unwritten social contracts. For what it's worth - I never mind. I get to partake in the miracle of flight. And they only give you, like, 3 inches of recline anyway. Just take it.

Seat pitch has decreased significantly since the internet was invented. It's hard to take seriously any discussion that doesn't take that into account. (Also, a lot more people have laptops than in the '90s. IME it's not possible to use laptops in coach if the seat in front is at all reclined, though I seldom see this mentioned.)

Yeah, I notice that too. When I bring a laptop there's about 50/50 chance I can actually use it.

Still, miracle of flight and all that. Still beats walking.

Re: The ethics of reclining airplane seats

#60

Post by hinata08 »

I almost don't care when the person in front of me reclines.

After all, we choose to be in the pit. Everyone pushed airlines and bus companies to have the lowest fares despite uncomfortable spaces. I remember about decently comfortable public airlines that almost went bankrupt in the 2000s, in Europe.

I would just set a few rules : -1 Hund's rules for reclining seat : please don't recline the seat just if front of someone, if you can do it somewhere else

- please be gentle : recline slowly and possibly with some notice, instead of just teleporting into the knees, head, laptop, and coffee just behind you The noises of smashed bones, and the "ouch ! it hurt and it burns" you'll hear might indicate these belonged to someone.

In practice, cramped space in planes is a reason I take the train (1st class as it's nearly the same price as 2nd in here) You have plenty of room, sturdy and bulky seats, the seats have a shell, and slide forward instead of smashing everything behind. You also have a bar serving expresso, wifi, cellular networks, full size power outlets, and no luggage is checked in away from you.

I don't travel in Italy, but I would like to try the executive class of their Frecciarossa. It's a coach with only a dozen of so seats, 2 per row, and there is a conference room. For an acceptable rate, compared to the same thing in a plane.

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