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Tech’s talent wars have come back to bite it

nytimes.com

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Re: Tech’s talent wars have come back to bite it

#51

Post by uMeanPpl »

nindalf wrote: post #13
ciphol wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is typical NYT reporting on tech. "I literally heard it from NYT reporters at the time. There was a top-down decision that tech could not be covered positively, even when there was a true, newsworthy and positive story. I'd never heard anything like it." [1] [1] https://twitter.com/KelseyTuoc/status/1588231892792328192

This decision matters because the NYT influences other journalists to a large degree. The person who took that autocratic decision was AG Sulzberger, the 37-year old publisher and chairman of the NYT. Surely a man wielding so much power and influence would have earned the post through merit and hard work, right? In reality it’s a hereditary post of the Sulzberger family. It’s shocking that a man who is a product of n…

A man wielding so much power and influence I’ve never heard of them.

Start a campaign against them.

Oh that’s right it’s on everyone else to organize as you desire.

Paranoid delusions of the anti-social crowd is all this rambling adds up to.

Re: Tech’s talent wars have come back to bite it

#52

Post by aliqot »

pedrosorio wrote: post #39
aliqot wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't want to Yepost but an explanation really presents itself. What is yepost?

Ye: Kanye West (recently famous for his antisemitism on twitter posts and interviews with the media) yepost: presumably posting antisemitic comments

Ho boy. I had to look that one up. Time's just flying these days- I put my head down for 5 mins to clear out some projects and the whole world is losing it.

Re: Tech’s talent wars have come back to bite it

#53

Post by noodle »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #43

In the past year, I have worked with people making six figures in technical positions that know as much about computers as my grandmother. And I'm not exaggerating (and she's no Grace Hopper). Like, doesn't understand the basics of how a computer works, much less an operating system (and I don't mean the kernel, I mean like, what a shell is, how programs are executed, environment variables, file permissions, devices,…

I don't think the first paragraph and the second paragraph necessarily flow into one another. I've worked with a lot of people in tech that are very proficient at their jobs that have no clue about "basic" computing stuff like local networking, symlinks, chmod, user accounts, etc.. Because they don't need to be. And they're definitely worth the 6 figures they're paid.

Re: Tech’s talent wars have come back to bite it

#54

Post by kerblang »

chasd00 wrote: post #46
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #43

In the past year, I have worked with people making six figures in technical positions that know as much about computers as my grandmother. And I'm not exaggerating (and she's no Grace Hopper). Like, doesn't understand the basics of how a computer works, much less an operating system (and I don't mean the kernel, I mean like, what a shell is, how programs are executed, environment variables, file permissions, devices,…

you know how there's that mythical 10x developer? what we really need is 10x HR. People who find and hire qualified workers 10x better than typical HR departments.

This is mostly true, but I think you're blaming HR for tech teams' own inability to run job interviews effectively. HR might be able to add an X or two, but the tech teams themselves have a 10x gap waiting to be exploited by innovative approaches.

Re: Tech’s talent wars have come back to bite it

#55

Post by quelltext »

jwsteigerwalt wrote: post #7

There is a disconnect between “tech talent” and the overlap of layoffs. Sure, some firms have downsized across the board, but plenty of layoffs we are seeing in the last 12 weeks is focused on areas other than engineering.

Where does this narrative come from? Yes, engineers are also impacted at this point.

Re: Tech’s talent wars have come back to bite it

#56

Post by bee_rider »

Eumenes wrote: post #5
throwaway0asd wrote: post #2

It’s hard to just blame the employers when I have seen so many people, most especially on HN, dying to treat employers as fashion accessories. Don’t tell me the rest of you haven’t seen developers fawning over themselves to become a part of FAANG. Even with the layoffs I still see people on here dreaming of FAANG.

I imagine that sentiment is with the younger crowd. The fawning over FAANG seems to be a new grad/junior thing. It very much reminds me of young bragging over which Big 4/public accounting firm they were going to join, or which investment bank. The senior/experienced people know that a job is more than the name or endless swag.

Apple and Google are kind of a cut above the rest there, from a prestige point of view, right? Netflix is fine. Amazon is... "well good luck dude, don't get burnout." Facebook... I'll bag groceries instead, might not make as much money but at least I'll be helping people.

Re: Tech’s talent wars have come back to bite it

#57

Post by 2devnull »

troelsSteegin wrote: post #28

Across the executive mea culpas, there is this theme of "I over estimated demand". But, one could take the perspective that they correctly hired to extract value during peak demand, because on average each new resource is profitable, and are now are reducing resources because there is less value there to extract. An investor could argue that it is irresponsible not to hire for peaks and thus leave value inthe market.…

Alternate take: The NYT wants to blame tech bros for inflation caused by bad policy. It’s as simple as that.

Re: Tech’s talent wars have come back to bite it

#58

Post by nequo »

socialismisok wrote: post #45
aborsy wrote: post #41

NYT, and left in general, don’t like the tech that much. It creates inequality, with value going to a small group of talented people. They have responded with regulations, taxation, painting the tech in media in bad ways, highlighting its negative consequences, etc. Look into relationship of EU with technology.

It's more complex than that, I think. Being on the left (the actual left, not some anemic pro corporate centrism that passes for the left like the Dems). Tech is seen as a potential force for good that has squandered opportunities. Amazon has dramatically gentrified Seattle, for instance, and done little bit shrug and make some relatively small donations to Mary's Place. (Which is good, but not enough.) Meanwhile, th…

I think there is nothing special about tech. Facebook, Amazon, Google, Apple, Microsoft are big companies with a lot of market power. They use their market power to maximize their profits (as they probably should) and perpetuate that market power (as they probably also should since they are not charities).

This has negative effects on many others in the economy. For example, Amazon bleeding out small retailers by capturing their supply chains and treating its own workers badly. Or Facebook manipulating teenagers into using its product despite the known negative effects on their mental health because engagement = money.

In such situations, something needs to counteract these companies' market power in order to reduce the negative effects on others. This can be consumer protections, labor laws, unions, antitrust litigation, or other types of regulation.

We've lived with a ton of such regulation that we don't even think about because it seems common sense. For example, we are not allowed to smoke inside a hospital, send our 10-year-olds to work in coal mines, or (supposedly) be forced to work 70-hour workweeks without overtime pay. It is only that the tech sector is too recent and we haven't figured out how to dampen its negative effects.

Re: Tech’s talent wars have come back to bite it

#59

Post by socialismisok »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #49
socialismisok wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can they do the job they were hired for? Because if someone has a good attitude, can write good enough code, and is willing to learn I can quickly teach them the Linux basics. Like, if someone doesn't know how to chmod or how to set up a .zshrc, I can get them up and running in an afternoon. These folks aren't clueless, they've just learned at a higher level of abstraction then you did. That's fine.

Would you hire a lawyer that can't tie his shoes?

Your example is poor, because most 8 year olds don't know how local networking works, but do know how shoes work.

But I'll engage with the questions intent. Would you hire a lawyer who doesn't know all the skills of their trade yet, because they are just entering the workforce? Does it impact his ability to practice law? Are they interested in learning but never had the opportunity? Sure, assuming I had something very straightforward I needed them for.

Heck, a lot of places offer discounts or free legal support based entirely on this premise - having an issue as a tenant? Go ask a young lawyer who is volunteering their time and is missing some skills, but knows the basics of landlord tenant laws.

Re: Tech’s talent wars have come back to bite it

#60

Post by socialismisok »

nequo wrote: post #58
socialismisok wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more complex than that, I think. Being on the left (the actual left, not some anemic pro corporate centrism that passes for the left like the Dems). Tech is seen as a potential force for good that has squandered opportunities. Amazon has dramatically gentrified Seattle, for instance, and done little bit shrug and make some relatively small donations to Mary's Place. (Which is good, but not enough.) Meanwhile, th…

I think there is nothing special about tech. Facebook, Amazon, Google, Apple, Microsoft are big companies with a lot of market power. They use their market power to maximize their profits (as they probably should) and perpetuate that market power (as they probably also should since they are not charities). This has negative effects on many others in the economy. For example, Amazon bleeding out small retailers by cap…

I agree, these aren't anything special and we should treat them like other big companies. The challenge is that the product can be a bit novel, and when the laws try to catch up to that novelty, it's perceived as being "against" tech. When in actuality it's just trying to adapt the rules we have to a changing world.

(I'd disagree that companies should maximize profit, but that's just a bit of an unrelated ideological difference.)

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