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India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

economictimes.indiatimes.com

51–60 of 544 posts

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#51

Do millennial and gen-z Indians have a similarly skeptical view towards capitalism held by so many young people in NA and the EU? I had a friend tell me the other day that I couldn't be anti-racist if I wasn't anti-capitalist, because capitalism is by inherently racist. Ever since 2018 or so it seems as if anti-capitalism has become part of the mainstream progressive Western viewpoint, while I don't remember that bei…

No. Liberalization of the economy is either what made all of this possible or in any case is what preceded this. An anti-capitalist viewpoint is associated with kids of rich parents who study what are generally viewed as non-productive subjects. The general view is that winning means getting your kids on the next step of the ladder in a profession that will move them upward in socioeconomic status.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#52

Interested in comments from anyone who lives in India or has experience/familiarity with it as to whether reality on the ground matches the rosy picture painted in the article.

I can give me 2 cents (or paisa hah), apologies if it gets a little sentimental, I am drunk. Looks like I've ascended on the Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

Grew up in a poor family with my dad as the sole earner taking care of my mother and 3 kids. Mum used to do minor clothes repair work for neighbours for some extra money, but it wasn't much. One of my first memories is waddling along to the ration shop (cheap subsidized government shops) with my mother to buy rice and kerosene for cooking.

Things were hard for quite a while (I was about 12 or 13), it didn't really change until my oldest sibling got a job at Infosys after finishing university. Now that I look back on it, what they were paying him wasn't much, but for us it was a life changer. We could afford daily essentials without any hassle. No longer we needed to buy things on credit from the grocery stores, no longer we were worried about not being able to pay the electricity bills at the end of the month.

It did change the trajectory of our life dramatically, as it allowed me and my other sibling to afford university. I did a bachelors in Computer Science and eventually managed to move to Europe for work after a few years. We are in a much better position than we were 15 years ago.

I know people here tend to look down on these cheap curry-consultancies for their dogshit services but at the other end of the line there are real humans too. Same dreams and ambitions as you do. It's true that these companies pay their actual employees peanuts and treat them like shit, but sometimes that's good enough when the baseline of what life gave you to begin with was wayyyy less.

This is just anecdotal so take it with a grain of salt, but this was a similar story for many of my friends from childhood.

It's a little funny that people here assume that everyone on this forum is some FAANG engineer earning $400k in SF, there's also a small section of us little people hanging out in the corners :)

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#53
post #5

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The west is shooting itself in the foot with socialism while Asian countries are lifting people out of poverty at an unprecendented rate.

Inequality is a feature, the pie grows larger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtJwAYJ9B08

Instead of lifting poor class upwards, the west wants to pull everyone else down. Reducing quality of life and regressing in every metric of progress. The future is in Asia, places like Taiwan, Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam, India, Malaysia, Singapore. Socialism is so easily captivating to average IQ voter class in USA, it is a fight every generation has to go through. Countless examples of failures won't convince people.

The likes of Greta Thunburg have changed their tune from climate alarmicism to just destroy Capitalism all together: https://twitter.com/ShellenbergerMD/status/15885879870379786...

Capitalism branding has been damaged by equating it with crony-capitalism which is what most people think it is.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#54
post #22

Such an awesome accomplishment. Also, it’s interestingly a huge black eye to the CCP: news of this Indian accomplishment will be censored in China, because it proves that nations can progress without forced-sterilization/-abortion/-1-child-policy/authoritarianism/ etc.

I think this is a world wide trend as well. Humanity is progressing with every generation. (this is true even in Africa). Some countries progressing faster though, (China being one of them).

In absolute terms, yes we are seeing advancements in tech/medicine and the like and that will always help more and more people, but in more relative economic terms it's questionable whether the gap between poorer nations and richer ones is actually closing, because there is economic evidence that the gap is actually widening:

> Net Resource Transfers (NRT) for all developing countries have been mostly large and negative since the early 1980s, indicating sustained and significant outflows from the developing world (see graph below)

https://gfintegrity.org/press-release/new-report-on-unrecord...

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#55

Such an awesome accomplishment. Also, it’s interestingly a huge black eye to the CCP: news of this Indian accomplishment will be censored in China, because it proves that nations can progress without forced-sterilization/-abortion/-1-child-policy/authoritarianism/ etc.

Why would it be a black eye to the ccp when they’ve lifted twice as many from poverty as India? And far higher growth, gdp per capita, etc. weird comment https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/l...

Are those numbers from China?

Is there a reason to trust them if so, considering they would be coming from a brutal, authoritarian dictator?

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't China ( https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/l... ) and the USSR ( https://borgenproject.org/tag/poverty-in-the-former-soviet-u... ) do similarly?

China's unprecedented generational explosion into the middle class happened only after Deng Xiaoping instituted market reforms. Economically, China is certainly more socialist than the west, but far more capitalist than it was in the 1970's. Same with USSR/Russia, post-communism.

At least currently, Russia is far below USSR median PPP income, inflation adjusted.

Life has gotten worse for the average person in Russia in the last 40 years, not better - by almost every measurable metric.

And that's with all the low cost tech they can import - like $20 cell phones and pirated Hollywood movies.

If China is on one end of success, Russia is on the other.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#58

I don't understand poverty statistics. With this news, the UK now has more people living in poverty than India (16% vs 22%?). If it is valuable to judge poverty on relative income, you would think the rational course of action would be mass immigration from the UK to India but that is clearly not the case.

Apparently the Multidimensional Poverty Measure is defined as;

An index that captures the percentage of households in a country deprived along three dimensions of well-being – monetary poverty, education, and basic infrastructure services – to provide a more complete picture of poverty.

There's also the Multidimensional Poverty Index which has an alternate definition

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#59

Thanks to the United States of America wether it be through legal or illegal means.

Hmm. If you are saying we are all interconnected, relying on the diverse resources, products, and gifts from around this small planet to do the things we want to do, e.g. care for our sick, advance the common good, protect the vulnerable, provide stable sources of food _so that_ our global population can grow in a safe, equitable, sustainable manner toward lives full of fulfillment and wonder, away from subsistence l…

The US has injected untold billions into the Indian market through off shoring phone support. India has made hundreds of millions of dollar scamming America's most vulnerable population.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And all the Chinese got was 2.5x GDP per capita

They also have 300% debt to GDP compared to 84% for India. We'll never know how much more advanced India would be if they invested as much in infrastructure.

You're comparing national debt with total debt.

PRC national debt gdp is ~70%, LOWER than India ~90%.

Also PRC has 5.5x the GDP / per capita vs India.

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