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Was everyone stupid back then?

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Re: Was everyone stupid back then?

#51

Post by Shared404 »

lob_it wrote: post #39
YazIAm wrote: post #17

"You thought that an information transfer protocol would solve social problems?" I recognize that this is just a comic strip, but this is a pretty reductionist point. The idea that giving people access to more knowledge about the world and about other perspectives would be a big help in addressing social problems isn't crazy. A major problem, IMO, is that the feeds we use to navigate this sea of information became op…

Social problems == culture divide It makes it funny when illiterates try to culture clump :)

There's more than just culture divide.

People being manipulated by giant propaganda networks to hate each other more and more and prevent progress from being made is an age old social _problem_.

E: Removed comment about being a throwaway, appears to just be a new account. Sorry about that.

Re: Was everyone stupid back then?

#52

Post by tgv »

jfengel wrote: post #16

“Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation.” Douglas Adams thought he was joking.

I'm almost sure Adams didn't think he was joking. He was just expressing it through a joke.

Re: Was everyone stupid back then?

#53

Post by emmelaich »

The more things change the more they stay the same.

Discussions in Usenet had exactly the same topics and flavour as forums and twitter today. Guns, abortions, free speech (including the old 'fire in a crowded theatre' trope).

Also present was various shades of mental illness, including the benign and the performative and narcissistic. Netnews was nicknamed 'nutnoise' for a reason.

You might find this sad but I find it strangely comforting. People in large semi-anonymous communities are predictable. At least things won't get (much) worse.

Re: Was everyone stupid back then?

#54

Post by ck2 »

The thing is, SOME people did and are still trying to use the internet in good ways, to share and help others.

But bad actors and bad intentions and lowest common denominator is always inevitable.

Reddit alone proves you can still have anonymity and people still behaving well enough to share/help. The key is moderators and moderation tools. And obviously "unlimited" freedom has to be sacrificed for "ground rules".

Re: Was everyone stupid back then?

#55

Post by ajdegol »

kyleyeats wrote: post #50
YazIAm wrote: post #17

"You thought that an information transfer protocol would solve social problems?" I recognize that this is just a comic strip, but this is a pretty reductionist point. The idea that giving people access to more knowledge about the world and about other perspectives would be a big help in addressing social problems isn't crazy. A major problem, IMO, is that the feeds we use to navigate this sea of information became op…

Imagine saying this about writing, or the printing press. It's not just reductionist but cynical. Optimizing for outrage is a mass communication problem, not an internet problem, and unfolds roughly the same in every new medium from town criers on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism

It’s not a mass communication problem per se.

It’s that humans prioritise social instability because it could mean death in, or of, the tribe; the incentive to make sales, as your link alludes to, is the driving force behind co-opting that. If that incentive disappeared I suspect mass communication would not be the problem.

Re: Was everyone stupid back then?

#56

Post by spiffytech »

YazIAm wrote: post #17

"You thought that an information transfer protocol would solve social problems?" I recognize that this is just a comic strip, but this is a pretty reductionist point. The idea that giving people access to more knowledge about the world and about other perspectives would be a big help in addressing social problems isn't crazy. A major problem, IMO, is that the feeds we use to navigate this sea of information became op…

> The idea that giving people access to more knowledge about the world and about other perspectives would be a big help in addressing social problems isn't crazy.

The idealized version of the internet always looked to me like "everyone would get along if we just understood each other. Giving everyone a platform solves that.".

The internet is showing us that reality seems more like, "everyone would agree with me if I just knew the right thing to say to them. But they refuse to stop being wrong, so I need to be more vocal.".

Re: Was everyone stupid back then?

#57

Post by Syonyk »

unconed wrote: post #47
lotu wrote: post #18

The unsaid implication of this comic is that getting rid of the internet would make society better. It would NOT. The ability to have rapid peer to peer communication with anyone on the planet is a good thing. BLM, LGBT rights, disability rights are causes that have thrived thanks to the Internet. The Internet did not cause fascism and any suggestion that it does ignored all of the 20th century.

Quoted post unavailable.

> and it was mainly smartphones that enabled that, because they let you take the internet outdoors.

I'm not sure it was "taking the internet outdoors" that made the difference - we could do that before, I certainly did with laptops.

The key difference with smartphones, IMO, was the conversion of the internet from a "pull" technology (I had to choose to go to a website) to a "push" technology (that website/service can disrupt me wherever I am). That's driven a lot of the nasty impacts (remember how Facebook used to send nonsensical pings to your phone to drag you in? "Your friend so-and-so you've not talked to in 20 years has a birthday! Wish them well!" I assume it still does it, but I've long since stopped using it and it hasn't been an app on my phone in far more years than that).

But we also had all the work on addiction from the "free to play" game model enabled by in-app purchases, which supercharged the research into how to just drive people up the wall and keep them staring at your service ("engaged").

If smartphones only worked inside, I think the problems would be almost as bad. I agree with you about smartphones, I just think there's a bit more nuance into why they ruined everything.

Re: Was everyone stupid back then?

#58

Post by lob_it »

fullshark wrote: post #38
shubhamjain wrote: post #6

Did people really think that Internet was going to solve all problems or is that revisionist history by back-in-our-day millenials? Even for a techno-optimist, it would've been hard to forsee the sheer penetration. Yes, the euphoria was there from the beginning. But, there's a difference between saying "it's going to be huge" and imagining an instantly accessible network available in the hands of 60% of the world fro…

There was extreme optimism, and (pretty much) everyone thought the internet was going to solve the particular problems they cared/obsessed over. Most commonly: now everyone is going to agree with me and governments will do what I want them to do. But also generally there was a belief that everyone was going to be smarter, more capable and productive and society would accelerate advancement dramatically.

Nick burns would disagree :)

https://youtu.be/25J3u3P-HHg

Technology natives skipped social to enjoy innovation without the emotional fodder. They were left on their own with nobody to coddle them.

Its 2022.. Illiteracy is obvious

Re: Was everyone stupid back then?

#59

Post by tgv »

fullshark wrote: post #38
shubhamjain wrote: post #6

Did people really think that Internet was going to solve all problems or is that revisionist history by back-in-our-day millenials? Even for a techno-optimist, it would've been hard to forsee the sheer penetration. Yes, the euphoria was there from the beginning. But, there's a difference between saying "it's going to be huge" and imagining an instantly accessible network available in the hands of 60% of the world fro…

There was extreme optimism, and (pretty much) everyone thought the internet was going to solve the particular problems they cared/obsessed over. Most commonly: now everyone is going to agree with me and governments will do what I want them to do. But also generally there was a belief that everyone was going to be smarter, more capable and productive and society would accelerate advancement dramatically.

I wouldn't say everyone, but there was a vocal, idealistic minority that had high hopes, that's true.

> But also generally there was a belief that everyone was going to be smarter

That still gets regurgitated: "Gen Z -> technology -> smarter." Utter bollocks, of course.

Re: Was everyone stupid back then?

#60

Post by wrp »

shubhamjain wrote: post #6

Did people really think that Internet was going to solve all problems or is that revisionist history by back-in-our-day millenials? Even for a techno-optimist, it would've been hard to forsee the sheer penetration. Yes, the euphoria was there from the beginning. But, there's a difference between saying "it's going to be huge" and imagining an instantly accessible network available in the hands of 60% of the world fro…

I remember people in elation over the idea that information would be democratized and control taken away from "the establishment". No longer would any small group of people be able to restrict flow of information.
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