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To get kids into science, just do it

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Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#51

Post by mumblemumble »

fastneutron wrote: post #32

To the people posting about having good chemistry sets as a kid: what were these sets and where did you/your parents get them? Where are the good sources today? Everything I remember growing up in the 90s was pretty dumbed down at best, and if you wanted to order any of the interesting chemicals or equipment, you needed a company or school letterhead with a PO account. Things got better in the 00s when eBay was still…

I think that 1990 is probably pretty close to the point where chemistry sets finally got safe(r).

I was born in the early 80s and my older brother was born in the mid 70s, and I distinctly remember preferring to play with his old hand-me-down chemistry set rather than mine. One like his could not be found in stores anywhere by the time I was old enough to be interested in a chemistry set.

But I also never gave myself any horrible chemical burns playing with my own chemistry set. So it's probably a decent trade-off, all told.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#52

Post by fastneutron »

hnews_account_1 wrote: post #50
n0tth3dro1ds wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever hear Kary Mullis (PCR inventor / Nobel prize) talk about his childhood? He could basically buy whatever chemical he wanted. Definitely did dangerous stuff and got into trouble, but it’s hard to imagine children today having similar ability to hone skills with brains still spungey and time still abundant.

Are .. are you saying it’s a bad thing children can’t handle dangerous chemicals anymore? Wut?!

There weren’t exactly mass casualties resulting from the chemistry sets being mentioned by the other posters in this thread either. We just got more afraid of being sued.

Snark aside, where is the middle ground? Fizzing and food coloring is interesting to a 5 year old, but that’s about all you can get as a consumer these days. There’s likely a vast gulf of squandered opportunity between that and what can genuinely be done safely and still be inspiring.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#53

Post by n0tth3dro1ds »

hnews_account_1 wrote: post #50
n0tth3dro1ds wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever hear Kary Mullis (PCR inventor / Nobel prize) talk about his childhood? He could basically buy whatever chemical he wanted. Definitely did dangerous stuff and got into trouble, but it’s hard to imagine children today having similar ability to hone skills with brains still spungey and time still abundant.

Are .. are you saying it’s a bad thing children can’t handle dangerous chemicals anymore? Wut?!

Yeah, a little bit. It’s not just kids that can’t get their hands on stuff. Even trained adults have to jump through regulatory and legal hoops. Schools face tons of liability. Mass market chemistry sets are lame now.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#54

Post by chriskanan »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #39
chriskanan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a scientist, I'd say this claim doesn't hold true for many scientific disciplines. I know scientists working in biopharma earning over $1M per year. That said, I do think the salary mentioned is accurate as a starting salary in academia for a research faculty position (tenure track starting salary in USA is ~50% higher though), but academia pays much worse than industry. You give up salary for huge amounts of auto…

Probability distributions are the difference. There are people earning $200k, $500k, and $1M+ in many fields. The probability of getting there (and quality of life while getting there and after you get there), are the important bits of information. For example, if you have to grind out my whole 20s (some of the best years for the human body) doing dissertations and working 80+ hour weeks for near minimum wage (per ho…

Unfortunately, in the USA that's true across PhDs and MDs. It requires about 10-15 years post high school to make more than a living wage.

At least for everyone I know, they all ended up with comfortable salaries after finishing their PhDs. Most people spend our best years spending the majority of our time working, and at least for me, scientific research makes it not feel like work. Not everything is about money and a professor can live well in many places on a $90K salary, speaking from past experience.

The biggest cost is probably the impact it has on trying to have a family since one doesn't typically have much salary or time until around age 35 with the typical trajectory.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#55

Post by lawn »

rdtwo wrote: post #2

Why would you want to get kids into science? It don’t pay for shit and career/life prospects are grim. Grind out a phd for 80k starting salary? Hard pass

To me, getting kids into science is not just a path to PhDs, but to engineering and technology in general, and that is a very lucrative area money wise.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#56

Post by [deleted] »

btrettel wrote: post #36
chriskanan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a scientist, I'd say this claim doesn't hold true for many scientific disciplines. I know scientists working in biopharma earning over $1M per year. That said, I do think the salary mentioned is accurate as a starting salary in academia for a research faculty position (tenure track starting salary in USA is ~50% higher though), but academia pays much worse than industry. You give up salary for huge amounts of auto…

> You give up salary for huge amounts of autonomy. The "autonomy" is a facade in many instances. Professors have to do what can be funded. For a lot of professors that means doing what's trendy or what panders to moneyed interests rather than what they'd actually like to do and what would be more valuable. Read chapter 4, titled "Assignable Curiosity", in the book Disciplined Minds for more detail. https://discipline…

[deleted]

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#57

Post by OgAstorga »

rdtwo wrote: post #2

Why would you want to get kids into science? It don’t pay for shit and career/life prospects are grim. Grind out a phd for 80k starting salary? Hard pass

More than half the American families earn less than 75k household income[1]. So the career/life prospects are grim either way.

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/203183/percentage-distri...

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#58

Post by scrappyjoe »

rdtwo wrote: post #2

Why would you want to get kids into science? It don’t pay for shit and career/life prospects are grim. Grind out a phd for 80k starting salary? Hard pass

This is the sort of comment that makes me really take a hard look at capitalism. The way I see it, scientific work is rewarding in and of itself. I don’t _need_ to make huge amounts of money if I’m doing something intellectually rewarding that contributes to our collective knowledge. Sure, add monetary compensation to your list of optimising constraints. But to make it the SOLE optimising constraint in your life? That’s tragic, IMO. Make enough. Do interesting things. Cultivate rewarding relationships. Be happy.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#59

Post by eimrine »

dislikedtom2 wrote: post #3

I remember being interested in sciences as a kid, but every time I asked for a chemistry kit or anything practical, I just got books and documentaries. Don't be those parents.

> but every time I asked for a chemistry kit or anything practical, I just got books and documentaries.

In my first day at school and at school library I have asked some books about physics or chemistry. My ask was refused and all books I was allowed to take were fiction books for children.

Re: To get kids into science, just do it

#60

Post by siver_john »

insightcheck wrote: post #38
counters wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We also need to dispel the myth that tenure track academic roles are the only jobs for scientists. In my field, one can have a wonderful, decently-paying career working in some of the most desirable places in the US if they go the national lab route. There's also a thriving private sector which will just get bigger. This doesn't even factor in the exit ramp careers if, late in the game, a student realizes that "scien…

I completely agree, but I think most people who arrive at this perspective only reach this view after spending time in industry or adjacent to people working there. A lot of the focus on tenure track jobs comes from professors and academics who dedicate their life almost solely in academic environments (so in their view, it’s a rather unhealthy attitude of academic tenure or bust). I’m not sure how feasible this is,…

In my time as a PhD student (granted still there currently just at the finishing things up stage) I was actually part of founding an organization for students to basically do this. We invited speakers from different fields and had them talk about "alternative" career paths considering the current system basically assumes you want to become a professor. We also included a workshop every year where we would build in career skills and have professionals come and speak. You learn very quickly that there is an incredible range of activities one can do with a PhD.
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