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The Browser Company’s Darin Fisher thinks it’s time to reinvent the browser

theverge.com

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Re: The Browser Company’s Darin Fisher thinks it’s time to reinvent the browser

#51

Post by stuntkite »

Vermeulen wrote: post #17

Reinventing the browser should be simplifying it to only what it needs to be: executing + rendering remote code in a sandboxed window. Make a new browser that is just WebGPU + WebAssembly, no more DOM. Would already run the next wave of games that will come targeting that. Then for regular websites, have them deliver a HTML rendering engine written in Webassembly for how they want to be rendered. No more need to test…

I've been poking at doing something like this lately. I'm so sick of browsers and I agree with your thesis. It's a lot to think about putting together a browser project from first principles so I've only done a few tests and flowed some stuff out. WebGPU really is the future especially because you can pipe around remote rendering and data. Is there an existing open project moving in this direction? Do I have to start it? Would you like to help?

Re: The Browser Company’s Darin Fisher thinks it’s time to reinvent the browser

#52

Post by Arnavion »

Vermeulen wrote: post #17

Reinventing the browser should be simplifying it to only what it needs to be: executing + rendering remote code in a sandboxed window. Make a new browser that is just WebGPU + WebAssembly, no more DOM. Would already run the next wave of games that will come targeting that. Then for regular websites, have them deliver a HTML rendering engine written in Webassembly for how they want to be rendered. No more need to test…

>Make a new browser that is just WebGPU + WebAssembly, no more DOM.

At the very least you'll also need a WebAccessibility API for the HTML rendering engine to hook into so that the OS sees your rendered textboxes as textboxes.

Re: The Browser Company’s Darin Fisher thinks it’s time to reinvent the browser

#53

Post by scarface74 »

sirmoveon wrote: post #14

If we have to rethink the browser is not because of the UI. We have to take the browser to the smartphones ecosystem and dethrone app platforms. Maybe, an app-able solution that mimicks most or all of the stuff one can get from developing for app platforms — because it would provide crossplatform, it would create the necessary incentive to develop for it. Also, user privacy first and open source.

Yes because cross platform computer frameworks are so great. I’m sure the experience on mobile would be just as good.

There is a reason that Facebook moved away from a cross platform web app and even Google is moving away from its own cross platform framework Flutter:

https://9to5google.com/2021/10/10/google-ios-apps-native/

Re: The Browser Company’s Darin Fisher thinks it’s time to reinvent the browser

#54

Post by wruza »

moron4hire wrote: post #13

I've been using "install this webpage as an app" in Edge for about a year now for the vast majority of sites I visit on a regular basis. The site doesn't need to have an app manifest or service worker to use the feature, you can just use it with any site. I also develop a Web-based VR app at work, have been doing WebXR and VR development for a while now. The two experiences together have me about convinced that tabs…

It sounds great until I remember the experience with winhlp32.exe. Opening something in a new tab and bookmarking or pinning a location is a good idea on its own, web or not. And like the article suggests, if there were as many windows (apps?) as tabs my browsing session often has, I’d like to see a tab/side bar at least for all the apps which I have absolutely no intent to “install” or thread-navigate separately in their own window.

I mean, sure, we never had this to quickly jump to negative conclusions for your idea, but it is more related to execution contexts and system integration imo rather than to how the ui for it could work. Personally I would like to also try the opposite - push all the native apps into a tabbed or tree-like interfaces with a capability to middle-click e.g. a file, an mpeg or a project file and spawn even more [tree]tabs from there, instead of doing that in separate windows and/or apps and giving them full control of the input. E.g. by left-clicking a link to any ls’ed resource in a terminal or an IDE you could go to “that app” and rocker-gesture back when needed, rather than alt-tabbing back to the original window. Restyling “apps” and adding/removing features from them would also be nice. Native apps and desktops as they are now are a little behind in ui sense, imo.

Re: The Browser Company’s Darin Fisher thinks it’s time to reinvent the browser

#55

Post by marssaxman »

Vermeulen wrote: post #17

Reinventing the browser should be simplifying it to only what it needs to be: executing + rendering remote code in a sandboxed window. Make a new browser that is just WebGPU + WebAssembly, no more DOM. Would already run the next wave of games that will come targeting that. Then for regular websites, have them deliver a HTML rendering engine written in Webassembly for how they want to be rendered. No more need to test…

How about... exactly the opposite? An HTML rendering engine only, with no client side code? That's the reinvented browser I would prefer.

The best sandbox is no need for a sandbox.

Re: The Browser Company’s Darin Fisher thinks it’s time to reinvent the browser

#56

Post by petmon »

Vermeulen wrote: post #17

Reinventing the browser should be simplifying it to only what it needs to be: executing + rendering remote code in a sandboxed window. Make a new browser that is just WebGPU + WebAssembly, no more DOM. Would already run the next wave of games that will come targeting that. Then for regular websites, have them deliver a HTML rendering engine written in Webassembly for how they want to be rendered. No more need to test…

How would you handle clicks and stuff?

Re: The Browser Company’s Darin Fisher thinks it’s time to reinvent the browser

#57

Post by lob_it »

As someone who enjoys HTML with java, images and cookies turned off, with several blocklists in the browser on my main reading tablet, a text only protocol would suit me just fine as a modern browsing standard (privacy browser downloaded with aurorastore btw).

I still use other browsers on the tablet when needed, but have dropped websites that are incompatible with basic text webpage rendering.

I also use an ipad just to watch youtube and listen to podcasts on distrowatch (i always multitask).

And use a 5g phone just as a hotspot with an LTE travel router.

As an aside, I was visiting Washington state this year just south of Mount St Helens in the spring and with a verizon unlimited MVNO (and only one bar of signal), i was unable to open normal websites to view (and didn't have a VPN configured on my devices), but lo and behold, youtube loaded just fine and played videos the whole time.

Its 2022.. I don't think browsers are going to fix the faults/toxicity with tcp/ip

A text-only browsing standard (htxtp://justwords.com server and client side) would make Build it from scratch, not from bloat and ads.

/Just my 2 cents

Re: The Browser Company’s Darin Fisher thinks it’s time to reinvent the browser

#58

Post by rhaway84773 »

Vermeulen wrote: post #17

Reinventing the browser should be simplifying it to only what it needs to be: executing + rendering remote code in a sandboxed window. Make a new browser that is just WebGPU + WebAssembly, no more DOM. Would already run the next wave of games that will come targeting that. Then for regular websites, have them deliver a HTML rendering engine written in Webassembly for how they want to be rendered. No more need to test…

Isn’t this basically the plug-in API that allowed custom HTML renderers that were basically Flash and Silverlight and was vehemently rejected?

In modern terms this is basically Flutter. Combine Flutter with Microsoft Blazor and I think that fully describes your idea.

Re: The Browser Company’s Darin Fisher thinks it’s time to reinvent the browser

#59

Post by wruza »

marssaxman wrote: post #55
Vermeulen wrote: post #17

Reinventing the browser should be simplifying it to only what it needs to be: executing + rendering remote code in a sandboxed window. Make a new browser that is just WebGPU + WebAssembly, no more DOM. Would already run the next wave of games that will come targeting that. Then for regular websites, have them deliver a HTML rendering engine written in Webassembly for how they want to be rendered. No more need to test…

How about... exactly the opposite? An HTML rendering engine only, with no client side code? That's the reinvented browser I would prefer. The best sandbox is no need for a sandbox.

Pushing all computations and interactions to the cloud has a number of downsides. Realistically, most sites would turn into a instant-rendering battery-saving untrackable privacy-respecting distraction-free ads for their own app.

Re: The Browser Company’s Darin Fisher thinks it’s time to reinvent the browser

#60

Post by [deleted] »

Vermeulen wrote: post #17

Reinventing the browser should be simplifying it to only what it needs to be: executing + rendering remote code in a sandboxed window. Make a new browser that is just WebGPU + WebAssembly, no more DOM. Would already run the next wave of games that will come targeting that. Then for regular websites, have them deliver a HTML rendering engine written in Webassembly for how they want to be rendered. No more need to test…

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