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NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

iapps.courts.state.ny.us

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Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#51

Post by jkhdigital »

afarrell wrote: post #43
RC_ITR wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>where's the penalty for committing those actions in the first place You've hit the core problem of society/government that countless generations have tried to obfuscate via an academic body that implies that social interactions can be studied/understood like natural sciences. At the core, all social structure is built on the threat of violence - Commit non-violent white collar crime? Show up to court, because if you…

> At the core, all social structure is built on the threat of violence Cripes. Nope. If this was true, how do you explain backyard cookouts, pool parties, trick-or-treating, or Christmas present exchanges? How do you explain folk dance festivals, buskers, and non-royal weddings? How on earth do you explain hugs?

Social interaction which is based on mutual trust (whether from family or sustained direct interpersonal interaction) is not really what we're talking about here. Folk dance festivals do not feed the world. The social structure of modern society is, by and large, about interactions between mutually distrusting strangers and their agents as they negotiate the exchange and distribution of economic resources. Basically everything you own and consume was produced by people you've never seen or interacted with.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#52

Post by SllX »

lkrubner wrote: post #39
SllX wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The consequences in theory are political. Theoretically Congress should be impeaching Presidents and expelling members that do not uphold their oaths. Executing consequences into popular Presidents or other members of Congress would also be politicized and have political consequences for Congress, so it doesn’t happen. That said, leaving impeachment or expulsion of legislative members to the Courts would also give th…

Christopher H. Achen & Larry M. Bartels wrote a whole book showing that voters do not keep track of what elected officials do, and so politicians are not punished for bad behavior, see excerpt here: https://demodexio.substack.com/p/longer-elected-terms-lead-t...

Correct, which is why I spoke mostly of Presidents and Parties who are all big enough targets that most American voters do form opinions about what they’re up to, even with only vague notions about the details. Individual members of Congress can usually skate by, but that’s only as true as their district or State is uncompetitive.

And in States where “big issue” lawmaking is deferred to the public via referendum on a regular basis there’s almost no incentive at all to mind what the legislature or governor is doing; especially if tax increases also have to be voter approved. Who do you hold accountable when it’s the voters who make a bad decision about a law?

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#53

Post by beambot »

toast0 wrote: post #44
RC_ITR wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>where's the penalty for committing those actions in the first place You've hit the core problem of society/government that countless generations have tried to obfuscate via an academic body that implies that social interactions can be studied/understood like natural sciences. At the core, all social structure is built on the threat of violence - Commit non-violent white collar crime? Show up to court, because if you…

> Sure, there's political theory and economics can act like "utility" drives all things, but at the end of the day, it's the threat of some sort of violently bad outcome that keeps society in check. Being incarcerated or dead is very low utility for most people ;)

Gotta DeMorgan's that statement to capture the true essence: Being not-incarcerated and not-dead is high utility for most people.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#54

Post by tptacek »

spfzero wrote: post #47
tptacek wrote: post #20

This is a confusing headline. The judgement here is in NY state court, and pertains to employees of and in the City of New York, which enacted a vaccine requirement for employees of the city and later private employers in the city. Months later, Eric Adams was elected mayor of NYC, and he issued an executive order exempting athletes, performers, and artists from the mandate. Petitioners sued, saying that the mandate…

Not merely arbitrary. From the decision: "This Court aggress that the Commissioner cannot enact a term of employment on City employees and has exceeded his scope of authority..."

That part of the ruling, too, was based on the arbitrariness of the order (in particular the fact that the rule was indefinite rather than temporary, and applies only to city employees and not private employees once the private rule was rescinded).

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#55

Post by Alupis »

DannyBee wrote: post #45
hitpointdrew wrote: post #2

Wow, NY finally does something right.

This will get appealed. NY supreme court is just their basic trial court

That may be, but it is really difficult to see how anyone will honestly make a case this was not government overreach, and an arbitrary overreach at that. We'll have to let it play out...

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#56

Post by prottog »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #17
anm89 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's really sad to see all the covid survivors in Iron lungs.

Looks at the literal million dead Americans what survivors are we talking about again? If you got fired during the days where we finally had a vaccine and you refused to take it, you were fired for a very good reason.

The median age of a Covid-associated death in the US, with its grossly obese and unhealthy population, is more or less the average life expectancy. It's absurd to dictate public policy that affects everyone on the basis of keeping the elderly around for a couple more years.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#57

Post by giantg2 »

afarrell wrote: post #43
RC_ITR wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>where's the penalty for committing those actions in the first place You've hit the core problem of society/government that countless generations have tried to obfuscate via an academic body that implies that social interactions can be studied/understood like natural sciences. At the core, all social structure is built on the threat of violence - Commit non-violent white collar crime? Show up to court, because if you…

> At the core, all social structure is built on the threat of violence Cripes. Nope. If this was true, how do you explain backyard cookouts, pool parties, trick-or-treating, or Christmas present exchanges? How do you explain folk dance festivals, buskers, and non-royal weddings? How on earth do you explain hugs?

Fostering good will to prevent future violence.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#58

Post by prottog »

aaomidi wrote: post #34

Back pay? Seriously? I thought people weren’t happy about executive power through judicial means, but I’m seeing that same group of people celebrate this. Also note: the NY Supreme Court is actually the lowest court level in NY. Articles like this are being misleading on purpose.

> Articles like this are being misleading on purpose.

Maybe your complaint should be with the State of New York for having such a misleading name for their lowest-level trial court, and not the OP for literally referring to it by its name ;-)

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#59

Post by phpisthebest »

czinck wrote: post #5

Because it's confusing: the NY Supreme Court is just a trial court, it's not at all like the US Supreme Court. The top appellate court is called the Court of Appeals. It's called "supreme" because it has general jurisdiction, as opposed to things like traffic court.

It is confusing because NY likes to be confusing.

Almost every other state the State Supreme Court, is the top court of the state, just like the federal court

And the Court of Appeals is lower than the State Supreme Court.

Why NY needs to needless complicate everything is beyond me

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#60

Post by phpisthebest »

lkrubner wrote: post #39
SllX wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The consequences in theory are political. Theoretically Congress should be impeaching Presidents and expelling members that do not uphold their oaths. Executing consequences into popular Presidents or other members of Congress would also be politicized and have political consequences for Congress, so it doesn’t happen. That said, leaving impeachment or expulsion of legislative members to the Courts would also give th…

Christopher H. Achen & Larry M. Bartels wrote a whole book showing that voters do not keep track of what elected officials do, and so politicians are not punished for bad behavior, see excerpt here: https://demodexio.substack.com/p/longer-elected-terms-lead-t...

This is also shown in polling data, where congress on the whole has an approval rating of less than 10%, yet most years the incumbent is reelected

That statistic alone has me questioning if democracy is a good system

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