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Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

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Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#51

Post by gambiting »

mherdeg wrote: post #37

I hope they treat it right! My biggest takeaway from visiting Vasa was that it only has decades left, after being essentially immortal underwater, due to some preservation-related choices that seemed right at the time. A final irony for the vessel I guess.

That's not quite what the museum page says:

"Vasa lay in the grimy waters in Stockholm for 333 years. After all these years in the water the ship was attacked by bacteria and rust.Vasa was slowly decomposing, and is still doing so today, due to a number of different factors. The museum is conducting world-leading research on how to counteract these decomposition processes. And considering the age, we must say that Vasa is in an impressive shape. Our goal is to preserve Vasa for a thousand years."

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#52

Post by rags2riches »

pavlov wrote: post #5

The naming of the first ship is obvious: Vasa was the royal house of Sweden. But why did the king decide to call the second ship "The Apple"? Did he like his Macintosh so much?

Other names of Royal ships in the same style were The Crown, The Key, The Sceptre and The Sword. Like The Apple, they are all regalia.

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#53

Post by zdw »

mwidell wrote: post #33
skookum wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been visiting the Vasa every few years for 3 decades and there has never been a time when museum goers were allowed onto or into the ship. I haven't been to Stockholm since the start of the Covid pandemic but I very much doubt that has changed. They do have some rooms on the side with mock-ups of some of the ship's quarters - maybe that is what you are remembering?

It's funny because I also had this memory of walking around inside the ship when I visited the museum as a child. A few years ago when I visited again I realised it must had been the interior mockups I remember.

Ah, might have been a mockup I remember - the ceilings were quite low and the floor very angled.

It's a sign of how good the mockup and whole museum was that I remember it being better than it actually was.

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#55

Post by xorcist »

jfk13 wrote: post #7

> The ship's designer was Hein Jakobsson, the same master shipbuilder who completed Vasa. He realized that Vasa had the wrong proportions even before she was launched, which could lead to instability. And indeed, she tipped, foundered and sank on her maiden voyage. > The Apple was therefore built wider than the Vasa, but despite this, the ship was not successful... Being a "master shipbuilder" in those days was appar…

A precursor of "fail fast, fail often" perhaps?

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#56

Post by rags2riches »

BurningFrog wrote: post #26
sorenjan wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vasa wasn't named after the royal house, it was named after the vase[0] on the heraldic symbol for the house of Vasa[1]. A vase is probably best described as a fasces. Äpplet was probably named after a globus cruciger[2], or "national apple" (riksäpple), part of the regalia of Sweden. [0] https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vase_(heraldisk_symbol) [1] https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa%C3%A4tten#/media/Fil:COA-... [2] http…

It seems that Gustav I also took the name Vasa from the heraldic symbol, though the Wikipedia article doesn't say so directly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Vasa

Gustav was known as "Gustav Eriksson" in his day, "Eriksson" being a patronym. Family names wasn't really a thing at the time, as coat of arms were. The form "Gustav Eriksson Vasa" first appears in the 17th century and simply "Gustav Vasa" isn't used before the 18th.

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#57

Post by ggm »

hericium wrote: post #4
NegativeLatency wrote: post #2

Are there any surviving line drawings of these boats?

There's Vasa Museum[1] in Stockholm with the whole ship. [1] https://www.vasamuseet.se/en/

It sometimes felt like it was a giant candle-wax drip model 1:1 scale, there is so much preserving coating on the wood.

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#58

Post by tored »

mandevil wrote: post #30
jfk13 wrote: post #7

> The ship's designer was Hein Jakobsson, the same master shipbuilder who completed Vasa. He realized that Vasa had the wrong proportions even before she was launched, which could lead to instability. And indeed, she tipped, foundered and sank on her maiden voyage. > The Apple was therefore built wider than the Vasa, but despite this, the ship was not successful... Being a "master shipbuilder" in those days was appar…

This is one of the things that reading D.K. Brown's pentology on design of RN ships (_Before the Ironclad_, _Warrior to Dreadnought_, _Grand Fleet_, _Nelson to Vanguard_, and _Rebuilding the Royal Navy_) drives home: in the pre-WWI era almost everything is done with fudge factors and building off of what was done before, but a little different, and even into the 1950's there are lots of room for error. One story that…

If you follow the excellent YouTube channel Drachinifel you will learn that many ships of that era (including WW2) had design flaws, like heavy rolling, flooding into compartments, breaking of the hull etc. This was the time before computer models and computer simulation.

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#59

Post by drc500free »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #38
bjacobt wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there was unreasonable expectation and pressure from management https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_syndrome Edited

Don't link to mobile wikipedia. It is incredibly rude to people who want the normal site, while being of zero benefit to people who want the mobile site.

I aspire to a life where my scale of rude behavior tops out with a stranger using the mobile version of an interesting link on an online message board.

Re: Vasa's sister ship Äpplet found

#60

Post by undoware »

I'm lowkey waiting to hear about Applet's other sister-ship, JDK

...implausible? Really?

Ha! You can't tell me you've never thought about what you'd name things if you were warped into the past and worked as a Swedish shipwright.

Like, it's just too tempting to troll 21st-century conspiracists with anachronistic ship names, of course it would be a thing you'd do.

Call this the 'anthwarpic principle' (no I don't care) and by 2022 epistemological standards, it's as likely to be real as anything else

OK, fine, downvote me, you cowards

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