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macOS 13 Ventura review

arstechnica.com

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Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#51

Post by slifin »

pohl wrote: post #43
kossTKR wrote: post #26

Is there any legit reason Apple is hastening the drop of support for older computers when they can be upgraded just fine with the OpenCore Legacy Patcher? It seems wrong to me in an age of excessive e-waste that seemingly arbitrary thresholds is set that has zero hardware links. I generally really like Apple, and is planning on retiring my 2014 Macbook Pro for an M2, but it's still working absolutely great. But i cou…

Seems like maybe a bigger cause of e-waste might be the mindset that a device immediately needs to go in a dumpster the day after some OS upgrade comes out that won't run on it.

As a software developer

I don't recommend my friends or family put important information or sign in to any device that is running unmaintained OS software

Because I assume they're exploitable from a security point of view after that point

Of course no one follows that advice but what are we supposed to do?

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#52

Post by whywhywhywhy »

kossTKR wrote: post #26

Is there any legit reason Apple is hastening the drop of support for older computers when they can be upgraded just fine with the OpenCore Legacy Patcher? It seems wrong to me in an age of excessive e-waste that seemingly arbitrary thresholds is set that has zero hardware links. I generally really like Apple, and is planning on retiring my 2014 Macbook Pro for an M2, but it's still working absolutely great. But i cou…

> excessive e-waste

We're talking about the company that makes AirPods and forces Lightning Cables to exist. Half their product line is e-waste.

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#53

Post by dev_daftly »

lastofthemojito wrote: post #41
dev_daftly wrote: post #36

Have they separated scroll direction for mouse and trackpad yet? I don't understand how a shared flag like that has not been fixed yet, does nobody at apple use a normal mouse?

Doesn't look like it. But Mos still seems to work if that bothers you (as it does me). https://mos.caldis.me/

I hate the fact that I have to install third party software to do something every other OS (i believe) has as the default. I've been using scroll reverser, but that looks nicer, will try it out. Thanks

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#54

Post by Toutouxc »

vanilla_nut wrote: post #15
Scharkenberg wrote: post #2

I tried Stage Manager and turned it off within 10 minutes. It does seem somewhat better than the iPad implementation, but that bar is so low that this feature at the current state deserves no praise whatsoever. The new System Settings app is kind of buggy, which makes me think that 13.1 is coming sooner (by the end of the year?) rather than later. Other than that, there isn't much I can personally say about Ventura.…

The saving grace of the System Settings app is simple: System Preferences sucked too. Even as a macOS user for my entire adult life, looking at that tile layout seemed to hide categories from my mind. Does anyone know what functionality has been lost in the transition? I was hunting around for it after I upgraded myself, but it's so different it's hard to compare. Ars' mapping indicates things are mostly still there.…

I agree, before it was the main screen with the icons that sucked (but looked friendly!), now the sidebar is okay and workable and the detail screens suck.

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#55

Post by [deleted] »

pohl wrote: post #43
kossTKR wrote: post #26

Is there any legit reason Apple is hastening the drop of support for older computers when they can be upgraded just fine with the OpenCore Legacy Patcher? It seems wrong to me in an age of excessive e-waste that seemingly arbitrary thresholds is set that has zero hardware links. I generally really like Apple, and is planning on retiring my 2014 Macbook Pro for an M2, but it's still working absolutely great. But i cou…

Seems like maybe a bigger cause of e-waste might be the mindset that a device immediately needs to go in a dumpster the day after some OS upgrade comes out that won't run on it.

[deleted]

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#56

Post by dividedbyzero »

timw4mail wrote: post #24
barkerja wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The previous System Settings UI was long overdue an update. While the new UI does very much resemble macOS, I don't see that as an issue, as it works very well in this context. At least, I believe it does, but I am no UI/UX expert.

Why? Did it function poorly? I'm a bit sick of the idea that something has to be changed because it hasn't for a while.

> Did it function poorly?

I've never been able to find what I needed quickly in the old UI, always felt disorganized and random. I like the one on the iPad a lot better, I find it way easier to navigate, so I'm happy for the change.

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#57

Post by wlesieutre »

vanilla_nut wrote: post #15
Scharkenberg wrote: post #2

I tried Stage Manager and turned it off within 10 minutes. It does seem somewhat better than the iPad implementation, but that bar is so low that this feature at the current state deserves no praise whatsoever. The new System Settings app is kind of buggy, which makes me think that 13.1 is coming sooner (by the end of the year?) rather than later. Other than that, there isn't much I can personally say about Ventura.…

The saving grace of the System Settings app is simple: System Preferences sucked too. Even as a macOS user for my entire adult life, looking at that tile layout seemed to hide categories from my mind. Does anyone know what functionality has been lost in the transition? I was hunting around for it after I upgraded myself, but it's so different it's hard to compare. Ars' mapping indicates things are mostly still there.…

In the network vein, Network Locations are also gone

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#58

Post by anonymouse008 »

crazygringo wrote: post #27
anonymouse008 wrote: post #8

To everyone who worked on System Settings, you put in a ton of work, and you're all very talented to ship something in a new framework (SwiftUI) that has gone on to millions of devices. I only have one question: who was in charge of the thumbs up / thumbs down on this new design? Was it Craig Federighi? You all did amazing work with the tools offered - SwiftUI makes the side bar navigation and simple cell table views…

> explain in depth why a side bar makes sense for settings, the most cognitively demanding part of an OS now with superfluous information on the side? That's critical real estate to lose What are you talking about? First of all, there's zero "critical real estate" to lose. Settings doesn't, and never has, taken up even close to full screen width on any regular laptop/monitor. And it still doesn't. Literally nothing i…

A screen only has so many pixels, every pixel matters. Further, is System Settings the only window open at the time? When are you usually entering the panel? Is it to achieve a specific aim when other windows are also open? or to browse and learn features? ... list goes on ...

I attribute System Preference's failure to be not creating additional icons and groupings that were properly descriptive and respectful of user use - for example: Gatekeeper should have been its own icon, not buried inside of Privacy and Security, then under a separate tab. From my experience, it was the primary feature to access within preferences. Further, yes, many improvements should have been made to Preferences, no doubt - Settings doesn't seem it though.

Settings doesn't make sense because the sidebar assumes a 'full screen / most of screen at golden aspect ratios' paradigm for the active window - which is absolutely not true for System Settings on Mac. More clearly: the sidebar works well when your mind can 'group' the edge of the bar, with the edge of the device. This works wonderfully for iPad - your mind can 'section off' without much mental effort. It's how excel usually works too - what madman would use excel at the aspect ratio of System Settings?

You now have a vertical and horizontal visual plane to mentally track - that also doesn't align in it's own window (what is Search, AppleID Profile Pic, etc doing anchoring the layout at top left) - and now all the controls are basically outlined table cells with weird choices for the controls. Try going to Desktop & Dock and identify what exactly are the groupings for the tables for 'Dock'? now I have to figure that out, too?

Re: macOS 13 Ventura review

#60

Post by plorkyeran »

kossTKR wrote: post #26

Is there any legit reason Apple is hastening the drop of support for older computers when they can be upgraded just fine with the OpenCore Legacy Patcher? It seems wrong to me in an age of excessive e-waste that seemingly arbitrary thresholds is set that has zero hardware links. I generally really like Apple, and is planning on retiring my 2014 Macbook Pro for an M2, but it's still working absolutely great. But i cou…

Ventura removes all the fallbacks for pre-Haswell CPUs and it now just assumes that AVX2 is available. Even if you can persuade it to boot on older CPUs I'd be pretty surprised if it actually works "just fine".
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