Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

christine.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 110 posts

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#51

Post by elai »

asdflkj wrote: post #37
nostrademons wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not society that's excluding anyone, it's one particular mentoring group . I have no problem with all-male groups like the Freemasons, Boy Scouts, or fraternities.

I meant a society, not the society. I should have used a different word. The things you've listed are all-male for traditional reasons. If someone were to start an all-male group now (like, say, an all-male mentoring group), it would generally be frowned upon. I was just wondering if you'd frown upon it also.

Not really. There are groups that are men's only and nobody bats an eye about it. (Sport teams, dating/relationship support groups). They just have to be something unique to men.

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#52

Post by meredydd »

ALee wrote: post #39

For all the gents out there, please stop griping. We need more women in startups (seriously, have you been to the meat market parties after tech events?!). Moreover, it'll give lonely male hackers more choice beyond the no talent Julia whatsherface-cant-get-back-my-15minoflife-after-reading-her-lameness-in-Wired, the designer and "community" chicks, the high-powered VC women, and the one or two technical female found…

We need more women in startups (seriously, have you been to the meat market parties after tech events?!) ... Moreover, it'll give lonely male hackers more choice

Although you probably didn't mean it, this attitude is most definitely Part Of The Problem. It's a pain because you're right - in an ideal, evenly-divided environment, there would be a lot of within-group dating, and everyone would be fine with that.

The problem is that, as long as there's a significant imbalance, the constant romantic interest is going to be seriously offputting for the few women in the group.

The men don't even need to be malicious or socially maladroit (although, let's face it, as a group hackers tend to lack social skills, which makes things much worse). What would be a perfectly reasonable level of possible romantic interest from each individual person rapidly becomes intolerable if it's all concentrated on the lone female in a big group of males. Which is why you hear so many female geeks screaming "Stop trying to date me, damn it, and look at my code!"

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#53

Post by trevelyan »

bootload wrote: post #27
halo wrote: post #4

I apologise in advance as this is probably quite a controversial rant, but this sort of thing has always really frustrated me. I guess it comes down to this: I don't see how sex matters when you're a business person, when you're programming, when you're building things. The sex of the person rightfully shouldn't come into it - it's their skills that matter. The interpreter, afterall, doesn't spit out a different resu…

"... I don't see how sex matters when you're a business person, when you're programming, when you're building things ..." Maybe because you are a member (myself included) of a homogeneous monk-like cloistered society that meets daily with your own kind where everyone knows the secret hand-shake and acknowledges you. Given that nobody does lone-programming anymore if you are different you are going to be side-lined. I…

> Given that nobody does lone-programming anymore

Really? I need a support group.

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#54

Post by arien »

I'm a girl and found the suggestion interesting. Support when you are starting is apreciated :)

Sometimes you need someone to look upon, who you can use as inspiration or for support. The closer they are to you the better you tend to feel. For example, I would look first for a local incubator (Spain) instead of aiming for a foreign one (e.g. US), but that doesn't mean the foreign ones aren't as good, just that I probably will feel more comfy on the one that's closer and consider we will understand each other better. This of course can be true or not, and I will find out eventually.

Before thinking about "does genre matter", think of the subject and change genre for something else. Does it sound normal to you? Then why the controversy when it's about genre (or race, politics or whatever)? This is just a proposition to try to bring more players into the game :)

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#55

Post by iamelgringo »

smoody wrote: post #16
sanj wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might I suggest that you consider taking part in a class dominated by women? Perhaps something discussing the proto-feminist leanings of Woolf? I'm not kidding. I think you'll find that you're lonely. That you gravitate towards talking to other men in the group. That you feel like your voice isn't heard. That you sense resentment towards you. That your opinion isn't valid. Now imagine going through that every day in…

I know exactly what you're talking about. I once worked for a software company where the female engineers/managers way outnumbered the male engineers. It became known as a friendly place for female engineers to work and that, in turn, attracted more female engineers. But that's not my point. My point is, at that company, I would often go to engineering meetings (with five to seven other people) where I was the only m…

I'm a man, and I've worked as an ER/ICU nurse for the past 15 years. Being a gender FOO in a gender BAZ dominated industry can be unpleasant and challenging at times.

Not to complain, but to make the point:

* I almost got expelled from nursing school because of what I believe was discrimination towards men. I've talked to other men who've had similar experiences.

* I worked on a unit where my charge nurse repeatedly called me a "boy nurse".

* I am frequently referred to as "one of those male nurses".

* Many patients have asked me, "are you going to go on to be a doctor". When I tell them that I'm not, I hear, "Oh." and get a surprised, concerned look.

* I've had my ass pinched/slapped by coworkers. (I'm married. It's not appreciated)

* I had a coworker ask me to help with her, "fertility problems" and don't I look just like her boyfriend.

* Last week, I had a coworker come behind me and start braiding my long hair. I had to tell my coworker that I don't like people messing with my hair. Can you imagine if I did that to a female coworker at Google, IBM or Ford?

* I'm frequently around when women trade child birthing stories, or hear coworkers talk about their menstrual cycles.

* I've had bosses talk to me about how men don't really do foo very well as nurses.

* I'm frequently asked to "be a big, strong man and help me move my patient". I have back problems from 15 years of being asked to do things because of my size and gender.

* I've often been asked to care for hostile, combative, drunk or otherwise chemically altered patients, because I'm a "big, strong man".

I could go on.

Let's just say that I'm happy to mentor any man that comes into this profession. There are certain tricks of the trade that will help a lot that I've picked up along the way. And, there are benefits to being a man in this profession as well.

If the gender FOO's want to get together and help each other out or talk about how to deal with being FOO around so much BAZ... More power to them.

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#56

Post by cabalamat »

elai wrote: post #51
asdflkj wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant a society, not the society. I should have used a different word. The things you've listed are all-male for traditional reasons. If someone were to start an all-male group now (like, say, an all-male mentoring group), it would generally be frowned upon. I was just wondering if you'd frown upon it also.

Not really. There are groups that are men's only and nobody bats an eye about it. (Sport teams, dating/relationship support groups). They just have to be something unique to men.

If there is some functional reason why a group might be all one sex, then few people would argue against it. For example, the way men act, think, are expected to behave, etc, in a dating/relationship setting is different from how women do; and importantly the behaviours that lead to success differ depending on whether you are male or femaile. So in that setting it'd be entirely appropriate to have a all-male or all-female support group.

Is being a startup founder like that? I don't know, but it seems plausible that it might be.

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#57

Post by cabalamat »

trevelyan wrote: post #53
bootload wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"... I don't see how sex matters when you're a business person, when you're programming, when you're building things ..." Maybe because you are a member (myself included) of a homogeneous monk-like cloistered society that meets daily with your own kind where everyone knows the secret hand-shake and acknowledges you. Given that nobody does lone-programming anymore if you are different you are going to be side-lined. I…

> Given that nobody does lone-programming anymore Really? I need a support group.

Me too :-)

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#58

Post by jodie »

pinkgarage wrote: post #46

This is a fascinating set of responses. For those men who don't see the need and therefore don't approve, I wonder why you are objecting? For those who see this as exclusionary, you might ask yourself whether an all white organization seems meant for and welcoming to a person of color, and then swap out gender and see what your response is. Just because women live in a world where most engineering cultures are set by…

I'm applying for this year's cycle and have sent pinkgaragementors a couple of emails with no reply. Any other way to get in touch?

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#59

Post by iamelgringo »

nostrademons wrote: post #41
asdflkj wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant a society, not the society. I should have used a different word. The things you've listed are all-male for traditional reasons. If someone were to start an all-male group now (like, say, an all-male mentoring group), it would generally be frowned upon. I was just wondering if you'd frown upon it also.

I'd think it kinda pointless and wouldn't participate myself, but no, I wouldn't frown upon it in a "should this exist?" way. People have a right to associate with folks they choose. Edit: actually - I can't say that I wouldn't participate myself. Mentoring is mentoring - if I liked the people involved, I'd get involved. I had no qualms when students at my college started a new all-male acapella group, or when they s…

* Mentoring is mentoring - if I liked the people involved, I'd get involved*

Yeah, but if it's a 50 year old male executive privately mentoring a 22 year old female CS grad, it might get a little creepy. Same thing goes for a 50 year old female executive privately mentoring a 22 year old new grad.

That's not to say that it's wrong for older people to mentor young people of another gender. It's just that the potential for creepiness is higher.

Re: Y Combinator Mentoring for Women

#60

Post by maxklein »

fallentimes wrote: post #14
aston wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious whether you'd be willing to share some of those eye-opening insights with us.

Wouldn't really call them insights, but sure. HHI 60k, Black, 2.1 GPA, similar EC, no record, ACT Score 16 - Accepted. HHI 50k, White, 3.2 GPA, similar EC, no record, ACT Score 22 - Rejected. Most were variations of that. That is, less qualified applicants in similar economic situations were admitted solely because of race. Obviously I knew these practices existed (oh hai Division 1 athletics), I was just surprised h…

If the 2.1 GPA dude had a mentor group catering specifically to him, his GPA may have been higher. That's the point of group specific mentoring groups - find a group that seems weak in a particular area and mentor them specifically to improve there.

You don't see Black Basketballers Mentoring Associations, do you?

Post reply on HN