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Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

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Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#51
post #31

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

My first encounter with snaps was launching gcalc, the basic built-in calculator app. At some point after an update, launching that app would take multiple seconds. How could the most basic gtk app be so slow to launch. Investigating further, I found the update had transformed the normal gcalc package into a snap, probably just to prove how great snaps could be for desktop apps? What a bad way to introduce your lates…

My last Kubuntu update (to 22.04) broke because, I think, I'd disabled snaps and the update required snap installs (including Firefox). The update had a "install snap version of Firefox" stage with the only option being OK/Yes ... so install broke. They were so up themselves that they removed the option to cancel snap install despite it not being for essential elements of the OS; I had to kill them installer.

My first brush with fat-packages was Digikam stopping producing .deb packages, it put in so much overhead I couldn't run it on my (admittedly weak) system. The forced use of Firefox snap lost configuration, then failed to work properly (permission problems) ... it's like how the use of file managers via sudo was stopped, seemingly without a proper plan to replace it; make the new tech first, then implement it when it works! It's like going back to Windows, having fragmented app sources and forced updates that wreck everything.

I'm not sure where to move to next, I came to Ubuntu years ago because I no longer wanted to do the config work necessary to run Slackware. Looks like Mint/Arch/Debian are contenders.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#52
post #22

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

> Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch took me a lot more work to get set up but once it was it's been pretty invisible, which is how I like my OS to be. I think that Fedora Workstation[1] is a #1 alternative to Ubuntu in terms of smoothness and ease of use. And if .deb is a requirement – then simply Debian. [1] https://getfedora.org/en/workstation/

eh Fedora requires many additional steps to get hardware accelerated video decoding or proprietary drivers working.

With Ubuntu it's all out of the box.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#53

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

After 15 years switched to Mint Cinnamon, it's quite nice now. It is easier than ubuntu because removing snap is no longer a task.

Next up need an alternative to Firefox, it's very disapointing how much has to be configured to turn off all the bullshit analytics, "colorways?", and get a blank new tab page.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#54

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

I also use Ubuntu a lot, and while I'm disappointed about this Snap thing, I'm still not looking for alternatives. At least until 22.04 I could dodge snaps pretty easily, but now, since Firefox is now a snap package, things went worse, at least for me. I gave it a try and, while the experience was not as bad as I feared, I soon encountered problems with things like trying to use a smartcard reader for signing documen…

I just switched to Chrome, it's available as a .deb from Google.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#55
post #14

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

For me it is just Firefox that I don't want in snap form. The Mozilla team still puts out a .deb version via PPA [0]. You should probably also pin to this source so that the snaps don't get installed [1]. [0] https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/ubuntu/ppa?field... [1] https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/04/how-to-install-firefox-d...

I agree, and it's a little depressing to have the same "now I have to go fix that" relationship with two OSes, Ubuntu and macOS (I guess if I used Windows more than occasionally it'd three for three). Since I did all that on 22.04, I am a little nervous that it will get clobbered if I upgrade to 22.10...

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#56
post #28

Ubuntu seems to be doing a speedrun of Microsoft's Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.

Microsoft will buy Canonical before the decade is out is my thought.

Then shall there be two distros of IBM and Microsoft, grinning at each other across a dead land filled with rottenness.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#57
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu but does not use snap. Doing "a lot more work" to install an OS does not sound appealing.

As Ubuntu gradually snapifies more and more stuff, Mint is either going to start falling behind or have to redo Ubuntu's packages (reducing any benefits of the Ubuntu heritage...). Mint might be an OK stopgap, but I wouldn't call it a long-term solution to Ubuntu's snap infestation. Just like you won't get a good OS by playing whack-a-mole with the various workarounds you have to do to avoid Windows' latest user-host…

Mint also has a Debian Edition, and it could just become the main one.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#58
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu but does not use snap. Doing "a lot more work" to install an OS does not sound appealing.

As Ubuntu gradually snapifies more and more stuff, Mint is either going to start falling behind or have to redo Ubuntu's packages (reducing any benefits of the Ubuntu heritage...). Mint might be an OK stopgap, but I wouldn't call it a long-term solution to Ubuntu's snap infestation. Just like you won't get a good OS by playing whack-a-mole with the various workarounds you have to do to avoid Windows' latest user-host…

Ubuntu still gets most packages from Debian, so as long as they don't switch to Snap, everything should be fine.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#59

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

I also switched to Arch... the only issues that I've had is that sometimes the update process breaks and needs manual intervention.
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