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I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

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Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#51

Post by natch »

lawn wrote: post #46
natch wrote: post #12

Profanity alert. Don’t read this if you are sensitive. You. Do. Fucking. Not. Need. An EV charger, to charge your EV. A 110 or 220 outlet with a cord and an adapter will work just fine. Apologies for the US centric terminology but I expect the situation is roughly the same (though numbers vary) elsewhere. We did TWO Teslas in an apartment for two years sharing (alternating cars) a single plug of a single 110 outlet.…

This is a bad idea because the risk of fire is very high. The electrical wires aren't built for the high load of charging a car, and doubly so if they happen to be old. That's why electricians should always draw completely new wires, to make sure that everything is fresh and able to handle the load. That it's been working for you for a few years does not invalidate this point, in the same way as not wearing a seat be…

Yes always use higher spec outlets made for heavy duty appliances, such as kitchen outlets. And yes it's a good idea to get your setup checked, and upgraded or repaired if necessary.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#52

Post by alias_neo »

yieldcrv wrote: post #16
sschueller wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grandfathering in electrical codes seems quite dangerous. At some point wouldn't the city just require it or deem the property unsafe?

no, the property will just burn down in a fiery electrical explosion killing anyone unlucky enough to have been there after the contractor missed the ancient arts necessary to avoid that. municipalities lack consensus for any other outcome to occur, they are all land fiefdoms.

I'm on board with what you're saying, but also electrics done to "code" can burn down your house.

My mother in law told me yesterday that my sister in law's mother in law's house burned down while they slept (they're safe) this week due to brand new electrics in a brand new house extension, carried out by a licensed (is that the correct word for an electrician?) professional.

This is in England

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#53

Post by saagarjha »

silisili wrote: post #17
avtolik wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many false statements in your post, I don't even know where to start. The grid absolutely can handle EVs. The range of modern EVs is totally fine for almost all cases. The price is an issue, but even in my poor Eastern European country the number of EV exploded this year. Mainly second hand small city cars, but also others.

The same grid that can't handle heat waves without begging people to turn off AC, and even then having rolling blackouts, can handle everyone charging at night or after work at the same time, too? Almost everyone in the midwest and mountain west considers a 3 hr (one way) drive a normalish weekly or monthly event. Sure, it's not most people, but it's not some tiny outlier. I'm completely fine with being made a fool o…

Absolutely. The reason the grid begs you to turn off your AC is because you do it at 4 PM when there isn't enough power. EVs charge at night when demand is low.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#54

Post by alias_neo »

breput wrote: post #9

The electrical code has evolved not only to enrich electricians, but also to provide a safer environment for the occupants of the buildings. So noting/complaining about having to upgrade an 82 year old rental duplex to modern standards because of electric car charging is a little disingenuous. That wiring is already past the end of life and ought to be updated for the safety of the occupants. But I wouldn't be surpri…

That's a valid argument to make to a home owner, but for a landlord that's potentially all of their profits, and besides, it's not theirs or their family's lives at risk from the old wiring.

It still works right? Great, let's add another excuse to increase the rent and we're golden!

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#55

Post by Robotbeat »

bhhaskin wrote: post #26
socialismisok wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydrogen isn't either. The real solution is to not have so many gas vehicles. There's also no reason we can't provide charging at destinations rather than homes. Workplaces, shopping centers, etc. Transit, trains, ebikes, etc. are all significantly more efficient, less polluting, and just better solutions all around.

This is simply not practical out side of large urban areas in the US. Not only is distance a factor but also weather. No one is going to be riding an Ebike in 10° winter weather, and a lot of people commute 60+ miles a day. Not to mention that public transportation in a lot of areas can be... Let's just say perceived as unsafe. Hydrogen (by itself) is as clean as it can be. The byproduct is water.

Hydrogen requires about 4 times the input electricity per mile driven than electricity for battery electric cars. That’s why it’s so much more expensive and almost no one uses it. And the fueling infrastructure is crazy expensive.

Personally, I think if we do have hydrogen cars in the future, hydrogen cars should require a plug and an enlarged lithium battery (say, 10kWh at least). Otherwise we’ll need to produce FAR more electricity than with battery-electric cars and consumers will be on the hook for far, far higher use costs.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#56

Post by Robotbeat »

bhhaskin wrote: post #49
ibotty wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Producing it is a little different though (not necessarily, but most of the time).

I agree, but it's not much different than producing the electricity required for charging EVs.

It requires approximately 4 times the energy to make and distribute hydrogen as charging an EV to go the same distance.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#57

Post by natch »

IndrekR wrote: post #35
natch wrote: post #12

Profanity alert. Don’t read this if you are sensitive. You. Do. Fucking. Not. Need. An EV charger, to charge your EV. A 110 or 220 outlet with a cord and an adapter will work just fine. Apologies for the US centric terminology but I expect the situation is roughly the same (though numbers vary) elsewhere. We did TWO Teslas in an apartment for two years sharing (alternating cars) a single plug of a single 110 outlet.…

If you buy electricity at the (hourly) market rate, you want to charge when it is cheapest and charge reasonably fast. On a typical 11kW home charger here in EU, that means about 6 hours for full charge or 1..2 hours for daily top-up. All the benefits for buying the electricity at hourly demand based rate disappear when full charging times approach 24h. This has two benefits: it is cheaper to charge and the grid work…

In our area the higher price (peak demand time) was during a window about 6 hours long. So we were able to charge a maximum of 18 hours a day while avoiding that window. Now we have 220 which makes things easier, but still no need for a charger installation.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#58

Post by lnsru »

natch wrote: post #34

You do not need an EV charger to charge your EV. A 110 or 220 outlet with a cord and an adapter will work just fine. Apologies for the US centric terminology but I expect the situation is roughly the same (though numbers vary) elsewhere. We did TWO Teslas in an apartment for two years sharing (alternating cars) a single plug of a single 110 outlet. It was fine. With this arrangement, yes, on days where you do big tri…

I had a neighbor with Tesla and he was happy to charge his car only on superchargers. Today in Germany all fast chargers cost at least 2x more than electricity at home making electric vehicles barely economically viable. My assumption: real car with 20 kWh/100km consumption comparing to 6-8l/100km diesel similar sized car.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#59

Post by dagw »

socialismisok wrote: post #11
sschueller wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grandfathering in electrical codes seems quite dangerous. At some point wouldn't the city just require it or deem the property unsafe?

I agree, especially if you are a landlord.

On the other hand, as a landlord it's not your health and safety you're gambling with. As long as your insurance company doesn't complain, spending a lot of money to decrease the risk of fire doesn't make financial sense.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#60

Post by breput »

oceanplexian wrote: post #41

I lived in a ranch-style home in California. Literally added a new breaker, ran 30’ of Romex rated for 50A, and wired up an EV charger in about 2-3 hours. It’s not rocket science. Now, obviously some panels don’t have the space, or the service to the house isn’t enough amps but if that’s a case why aren’t you upgrading a 50 year-old electrical panel anyway? It sounds like OP had a bunch of deferred electrical mainten…

You're not wrong, and I have wired my own 60A circuit, but it is not trivial either and it is right at the edge of the above-average DIY capability to do it safely.
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