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Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

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Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#51

Post by Fnoord »

nivenkos wrote: post #41
satellites wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the Indian devs work their ass off out of fear of getting PIP’d and with their work authorization, they lose their job means they have to leave the country. This matches what I saw at Nike. Though it was a bit less extreme, it was the same dynamic. Indian-born workers got paid half what the American-born workers did for the same SWE jobs. And Indian workers couldn’t complain or push back against unrealistic exp…

Same for us Europoors. Joining meetings at Seattle time (like 7-8pm CET), meanwhile you're being paid less than half of what the American engineers earn at the same level. But they know there's so few options in Europe so they set the salaries according to "local market conditions".

Well, I guess I'd be fired quickly because between 7 and 8 PM CET I put my kids to bed, usually fall asleep too.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#52

Post by Fnoord »

deadbolt wrote: post #15
tech-historian wrote: post #3

> "only one out of three new hires in 2021" stay with the company for 90 or more days. This is truly amazing. I'm guessing the warehouse biz has the most effect on this stat, but still. Wow.

In 1913, Ford hired more than 52,000 men to keep a workforce of only 14,000 [1] It sounds amazing, but it's not original. It says something about where we're at, as a country, [1] https://www.payscale.com/compensation-trends/curb-employee-t...

Its the R in 'HR'.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#53

Post by [deleted] »

Max-Ganz-II wrote: post #25

I stopped using Amazon for shopping about two years ago, because of how they treat warehouse staff. I never thought to work at Amazon, because I heard from multiple colleagues, former employees, that Amazon is profoundly metric based; then the stories such as this, about burning out staff, and about the fake PIP process, began surfacing.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#54

Post by nivenkos »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #42
nivenkos wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for us Europoors. Joining meetings at Seattle time (like 7-8pm CET), meanwhile you're being paid less than half of what the American engineers earn at the same level. But they know there's so few options in Europe so they set the salaries according to "local market conditions".

>Joining meetings at Seattle time (like 7-8pm CET), In which country are you? We Europoors usually have labor laws to protect us from having to work so late. Where I live we have core working hours in our contract, 10:00 to 16:00, any work requests after that are voluntary for the employees. Is that not something you can use to push back on this?

Yeah, but good luck enforcing that with no trade union, nevermind if you're aiming for a promotion, etc.

Like real worker power comes from having good economic conditions and strong trade unions - the American engineers have far more bargaining power, because they can easily get competing $150k-250k offers which are unimaginable in Europe.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#55

Post by nivenkos »

cafed00d wrote: post #37
shafyy wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s actually not stupid. It’s genius. It's genius if you don't have a shred of ethics left in your bones.

It’s actually really stupid. Not having ethics/empathy is actually _really dumb_ way to run a company. They end up making a lot of people miserable. Eventually, all of the technology, market advantage yadda yadda catches up. IBM, Yahoo, heck even Meta/Facebook. Amazon won’t last. But in their wake, they leave behind very different testimonials. Working people to a grind has its obvious needs in times of crisis — I me…

To quote Keynes, in the long run we're all dead.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#56

Post by Eisenstein »

Ligma123 wrote: post #39

It's not just Amazon that does this. And there are only two ways to hurt them back for it. One is people refusing to work there, which is obviously easier to do for engineers than for warehouse workers. The second is refusing to make business with them. Just don't order your stuff from there, don't subscribe to Prime and so on, but I guess this is just too much to ask for the average guy whose whole personality revol…

There are a few more than two...

The third is organizing a union and striking until demands are met. The fourth is regulating them with laws. The fifth is borrowing enough money to gain enough stock to force some allies onto board seats and implementing change from the top down.

I'm sure there are more.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#57

Post by yrgulation »

Max-Ganz-II wrote: post #25

I stopped using Amazon for shopping about two years ago, because of how they treat warehouse staff. I never thought to work at Amazon, because I heard from multiple colleagues, former employees, that Amazon is profoundly metric based; then the stories such as this, about burning out staff, and about the fake PIP process, began surfacing.

Likewise, and the extra reason of amazon being filled with low quality products. Now if only i could get people to move away from aws…

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#58

Post by yrgulation »

esarbe wrote: post #46

How is the US - as a society - okay with companies like Amazon abusing their employees, deny them union representation while paying them a starvation wage? These companies abuse the total breakdown of the US's social security network; the US made it so bad that people are actually forced to work in such conditions. Together with the almost total dismantling of the unions in the US, this leaves low skilled workers no…

It’s the work culture. In the uk it’s more or less known that when a us company acquires a local company it will go downhill in terms of working conditions.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#59

Post by yrgulation »

I absolutely wouldnt mind waiting an extra day or two for my package if it means better working conditions for warehouse and software workers at amazon. I wouldnt mind if bezos earned a little less either. For now tho i stopped using it all together.

Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents

#60

Post by ignoramous »

nivenkos wrote: post #41
satellites wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the Indian devs work their ass off out of fear of getting PIP’d and with their work authorization, they lose their job means they have to leave the country. This matches what I saw at Nike. Though it was a bit less extreme, it was the same dynamic. Indian-born workers got paid half what the American-born workers did for the same SWE jobs. And Indian workers couldn’t complain or push back against unrealistic exp…

Same for us Europoors. Joining meetings at Seattle time (like 7-8pm CET), meanwhile you're being paid less than half of what the American engineers earn at the same level. But they know there's so few options in Europe so they set the salaries according to "local market conditions".

> Same for us Europoors.

Mate, it isn't quite nearly the same for Europeans.

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