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Hackers drain $100M off Solana-based DeFi platform Mango Markets

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Re: Hackers drain $100M off Solana-based DeFi platform Mango Markets

#51

Post by dang »

nradov wrote: post #9
cryptoanon wrote: post #6

A lot of people seem to think that this was an inside job. I’m getting tired of this. So much money has been siphoned away from the market it’s not funny anymore.

Quoted post unavailable.

We've asked you many times to stop breaking the site guidelines. If you keep doing it, we're going to have to ban you. I don't want to ban you so would you please stop?

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: Hackers drain $100M off Solana-based DeFi platform Mango Markets

#52

Post by dang »

cryptoanon wrote: post #10
nradov wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Why are you so cruel?

"Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead."

a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Hackers drain $100M off Solana-based DeFi platform Mango Markets

#53

Post by Retr0id »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #40
mewse wrote: post #14

NB: This article is about the $115 million Mango Markets hack of a few days ago, not about the $127 million exploit of Binance's blockchain from last week or the $160 million Wintermute hack from last month or the $1.2 billion-with-a-'b' Acala hack from the month before, or...

Crypto being public might mean more hacks get reported whereas a 100 private businesses getting phished out of a million wont register even if the information is available to a reporter.

And?

Re: Hackers drain $100M off Solana-based DeFi platform Mango Markets

#54

Post by groestl »

e63f67dd-065b wrote: post #38

Code is law working out real well over here. The code said that we should value MNGO at the current spot price, so that's what the code did, and poof went the entire network. In the real world we have things like leverage ratios, anti-manipulation laws, circuit breakers, etc. Some of this is regulatory, and others are just things we figured out were good ideas many years ago. I think there's a sense of hubris in the…

Playing devil's advocate here, since I'm generally of your opinion: there is nothing that prevents more code being written covering more unintended uses of the technology, including injuctions and reversals. If at all, there is a hubris that complex problems can be solved with clean, minimal code and simple concepts. After all, when rendering their decisions, human courts are also solely refering to rules written before the fact (in my home country at least).

Re: Hackers drain $100M off Solana-based DeFi platform Mango Markets

#55

Post by hef19898 »

anonymoushn wrote: post #44
leereeves wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The perpetrator’s actions made $MNGO’s spot market price, reaching as high as $0.91. If the "perpetrator" sold 483mm units on one account and bought 483mm units on another account, why did the market price rise so much?

they separately bought a bunch of tokens on centralized exchanges to manipulate the price of the derivatives

Which, also based on the parent, sounds like a pretty smart exploit, doesn't it?

Re: Hackers drain $100M off Solana-based DeFi platform Mango Markets

#56

Post by ckastner »

Syonyk wrote: post #23
Animats wrote: post #15

"According to Lim, the hacker funded the main account (account A) and offered 483mm units of $MNGO perps on the order book. The attacker then funded a second account (account B) with 5mm $USDC collateral. Then, he/she used the funds to buy the 483mm units of $MNGO perps (at a price of $0.0382 per unit). The perpetrator’s actions made $MNGO’s spot market price, reaching as high as $0.91. $MNGO/USD price of $0.91 per u…

> But the crypto sector doesn't want exchange regulation, so they don't have the "circuit breakers" that, say, the CBOE does. The description of crypto markets as "speedrunning the history of why we have the financial regulations we do" seems more and more accurate as time goes on. But I agree, this isn't a "hack" in the normal sense. It may be a "hack" in the broader, "clever use of a system against the desires of t…

> The description of crypto markets as "speedrunning the history of why we have the financial regulations we do" seems more and more accurate as time goes on.

As someone who's been at the butt end of banking regulation for almost two decades, I love that quote.

It used to annoy me to no end that crypto folk touted the lack of regulation, actually even the ability to regulate, as some revolutionary new feature, not realizing that in fact, they were just traveling back to the stone age of finance.

The vast majority of the tons of financial regulations that exist today serve to protect market participants, most notably your Average Joe. Average Joe claiming he doesn't need regulation just demonstrates their absolute cluelessness and is just another argument in favor of it.

Re: Hackers drain $100M off Solana-based DeFi platform Mango Markets

#58

Post by squeaky-clean »

anonymoushn wrote: post #48
squeaky-clean wrote: post #41

"Then, he/she used the funds to buy the 483mm units of $MNGO perps (at a price of $0.0382 per unit). The perpetrator’s actions made $MNGO’s spot market price, reaching as high as $0.91" Is the second sentence sentence missing some words? Or is there something specific about Mango that makes this make sense? If 483mm units were bought for $0.0382 per unit (is that the average price, a fixed price?), why did the spot p…

First question: yes, the missing part is that the attacker also had to buy a bunch of spot mango tokens on centralized exchanges to drive the price up after establishing the large position. Second question: Mango Markets lets you trade perpetual futures with leverage, so you don't need collateral equal to the notional value of the contracts you buy.

Thank you! It makes sense now, and also... wow.

Re: Hackers drain $100M off Solana-based DeFi platform Mango Markets

#59

Post by mattwilsonn888 »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #43
mattwilsonn888 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if this has much specific relation to the Mango hack, but you raise an interesting point mentioning the possibility of a developer hacking his own network (who would be more qualified to do so?) - my broader point is this: there is a lot of incentive to get these platforms up and running, and not always a lot to build them safely and even less to truly audit them. Often the developers make their money up…

Sounds like what the space needs is regulation... You know, to provide assurance that automated protocols are written strongly, and legal recourse against bad actors.

Regulating bodies are not capable of performing cyber-security protocol audits on emerging technology. 'Throwing regulation at the problem' is an embarrassing proposal that I'm sure many regulating bodies will pat you on the back for stanning.

Re: Hackers drain $100M off Solana-based DeFi platform Mango Markets

#60

Post by lmm »

groestl wrote: post #54
e63f67dd-065b wrote: post #38

Code is law working out real well over here. The code said that we should value MNGO at the current spot price, so that's what the code did, and poof went the entire network. In the real world we have things like leverage ratios, anti-manipulation laws, circuit breakers, etc. Some of this is regulatory, and others are just things we figured out were good ideas many years ago. I think there's a sense of hubris in the…

Playing devil's advocate here, since I'm generally of your opinion: there is nothing that prevents more code being written covering more unintended uses of the technology, including injuctions and reversals. If at all, there is a hubris that complex problems can be solved with clean, minimal code and simple concepts. After all, when rendering their decisions, human courts are also solely refering to rules written bef…

> After all, when rendering their decisions, human courts are also solely refering to rules written before the fact (in my home country at least).

They don't though. Courts dream new meanings into existing laws, create new duties where none existed before, and while the extent to which they should do so is controversial, few serious people think they should avoid doing so entirely.

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