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Follow up to “Android graphics true facts”, or The Reason Android is Laggy

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Re: Follow up to “Android graphics true facts”, or The Reason Android is Laggy

#51

Post by martingordon »

saurik wrote: post #10

"""It’s because on iOS all UI rendering occurs in a dedicated UI thread with real-time priority. On the other hand, Android follows the traditional PC model of rendering occurring on the main thread with normal priority.""" """On iOS when an app is installing from the app store and you put your finger on the screen, the installation instantly pauses until all rendering is finished.""" <- This is certainly not true. T…

He seems like a smart kid, but he's clearly not developed anything on iOS. One of the key things you learn as you're learning how to build an iOS app is that all UI code must be run on the main thread. It even says so right there in the [UIView class reference](http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/uikit/...):

> Threading Considerations Manipulations to your application’s user interface must occur on the main thread. Thus, you should always call the methods of the UIView class from code running in the main thread of your application. The only time this may not be strictly necessary is when creating the view object itself but all other manipulations should occur on the main thread.

Re: Follow up to “Android graphics true facts”, or The Reason Android is Laggy

#52

Post by randomdata »

untog wrote: post #45
randomdata wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Last I checked Android devices were outselling iOS." Source? There have been many reports of Android phones outselling the iPhone, but I am not familiar with the ones about Android devices outselling iOS devices (iPod touch, iPad, etc.)

Probably because that would be incredibly difficult to calculate. There isn't really an Android equivalent of an iPod, for a start. Do we include Nook and Kindle Fire devices in the figures? Because that would affect things. At least cellphones is a more like-for-like comparison.

I do not disagree, but the parent referred to data that shows Android vs. all iOS devices, so I am quite interested in reading it.

Re: Follow up to “Android graphics true facts”, or The Reason Android is Laggy

#53

Post by interlagos »

vilya wrote: post #47
interlagos wrote: post #8

This isn't a "follow-up", per se. Nonetheless, while Android continually works to smooth out the rough edges -- helped along by the march of technology -- this is something that is a bit overblown: Minor jutters of the interface is something that primarily irritates people as a relative thing, not as an absolute thing. If you are a developer or a reviewer and you regularly use an iOS device and an Android device, the…

That directly contradicts my own experience with Android. I bought a HTC Hero as my first smartphone, so I didn't have any reference points to compare it with. Over 18 painful months of owning that phone I never got used to the lagginess of the UI. Not to the point where it faded into the background, anyway: I learnt to anticipate the lag, but it never stopped being annoying. So much so that when it came time to repl…

There was a dark period in Android's existence where a very immature OS came together with underpowered hardware (the GPU in an iPhone 3G demolished the GPU in the Hero) and created a pretty bad experience.

That wasn't what I was talking about. I'm talking about almost imperceptible, frame-or-two jitters that is the current state of Android on virtually any contemporary device. The top selling Android devices are all "buttery smooth" in the perception of their users, even if relative to an iPhone it is herky jerky.

Re: Follow up to “Android graphics true facts”, or The Reason Android is Laggy

#54

Post by parfe »

ajross wrote: post #30
illumin8 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iOS decision was more correct because it has proven itself in the marketplace. Consumers overwhelmingly demand touch interfaces on their smartphones and tablets, as opposed to stylus, trackball, or any other that has come before it. Android started as a platform trying to out-Blackberry RIM. When the iPhone was released in 2007 they switched to a model of trying to out-do iOS.

"Proven itself" how, exactly? Last I checked Android devices were outselling iOS. Now, there's room for argument here about what the proper design is for a mobile OS. But if you're going to support your platform flamage with statements like "Consumers overwhelmingly demand" you need to synchronize the argument with the facts.

Total devices in the field. At Apple's iPhone 4S launch event on October 4th, CEO Tim Cook said that the company had sold 250 million iOS devices to date--including iPhones, iPod Touches, iPads, and (I assume) current-generation Apple TVs. Shortly thereafter, Google CEO Larry Page said that 190 million Android devices had been "activated." (Google talks about units in terms of activations, not sales.) http://news.cnet.com/8301-33200_3-57323943-290/ios-vs-androi... Dated Nov 14, 2011.

Re: Follow up to “Android graphics true facts”, or The Reason Android is Laggy

#55

Post by yellowbkpk »

The great part about Android being open source is that you can go look at the source to see that the UI thread is not a "normal priority" thread [0]. There are very few things that run at higher priority (and they're listed right there): the threads related to audio and the hardware interaction (power buttons, etc.).

Last time I tried it, Android did not let you create a thread with higher priority than the UI thread.

[0] http://developer.android.com/reference/android/os/Process.ht...

Re: Follow up to “Android graphics true facts”, or The Reason Android is Laggy

#56

Post by bad_user »

reidmain wrote: post #49
ajross wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Proven itself" how, exactly? Last I checked Android devices were outselling iOS. Now, there's room for argument here about what the proper design is for a mobile OS. But if you're going to support your platform flamage with statements like "Consumers overwhelmingly demand" you need to synchronize the argument with the facts.

"Proven itself" can mean that iOS grosses more than Android. Last I checked iOS users spend more on apps/services than their Android counterparts.

If that's because Android's interface is laggy, then why do people keep buying Androids?

IMHO, iOS users spend more on apps because iTunes is better than Android's Marketplace - this may have been a deliberate decision by Google nonetheless. Did you know that I am not allowed to sell Android apps in the Marketplace because my country is still not approved for registering a Google Merchant account? That's right, it's almost 2012 and while I can sell apps on iTunes, I can't on Android's Marketplace. However I have no problem integrating AdMob in those apps. So it's like Google wants ad-supported instead of paid apps, which considering their main business model it isn't that shocking.

However, you can't say that Android and its UI is not a success.

Re: Follow up to “Android graphics true facts”, or The Reason Android is Laggy

#57

Post by sssparkkk »

Interesting to finally see some informed discussion about this going on. In the meantime I've scripted my Galaxy S to turn off syncing when the screen is turned on. It helps a lot to combat lag, as the phone often had the annoying (but understandable) habit of starting a sync when it was awakened by me: resulting in slowness just when I tried to use the device.

Re: Follow up to “Android graphics true facts”, or The Reason Android is Laggy

#58

Post by mikeash »

javert wrote: post #46
saurik wrote: post #10

"""It’s because on iOS all UI rendering occurs in a dedicated UI thread with real-time priority. On the other hand, Android follows the traditional PC model of rendering occurring on the main thread with normal priority.""" """On iOS when an app is installing from the app store and you put your finger on the screen, the installation instantly pauses until all rendering is finished.""" <- This is certainly not true. T…

has nothing to do with threading, and certainly has nothing to do with "real-time priority" Well, it has everything to do with real-time priority, because in the case of Android, there is a clear priority inversion. That is, what should be considered the highest-priority work IMHO (updating the UI) is being delayed for other lower-priority work. Absent other factors, the technically correct way of dealing with this k…

It can't have anything to do with real-time priority, as iOS does not have any special priority for the main (UI) thread.

Re: Follow up to “Android graphics true facts”, or The Reason Android is Laggy

#60

Post by catch23 »

interlagos wrote: post #29
ImprovedSilence wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps. But once the end user notices the lag compared to their friends device, it very quickly becomes an end users (and very shortly, the platforms) problem. My android lags, and it pisses me off. per your quote: "It's the same as getting an upgrade to your PC, a new video card, etc. You were perfectly happy before, but relative to your new reality the old one seems subpar, and you overestimate how much it interfe…

I don't disagree with what you've written, and the relative thing is a problem -- if people feel a bit shameful that their new device isn't as slick as the last generation iPhone, it does hurt love of one's device a bit. That's why Android 4.0 takes big steps in the "be proud to show it off" realm. However to the relative thing, to most smartphone users the things that matter are can I use Facebook, how is the pictur…

I disagree here based on interacting with someone who owns an ipad v1. When this person tried out my samsung honeycomb tablet, she thought it was slower "computer" that hers, even though she's doesn't know the specs of my "dual-core" honeycomb tablet.
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