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Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

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Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#51

Post by magic_hamster »

i_am_jl wrote: post #47
magic_hamster wrote: post #3

They are absolutely right to do this, and private users should be wary as well. DJI's application (Mimo) has been banned from the Android Play Store for some time, with no explanation given by DJI. They offer an APK to side load, which is completely unsupervised, and requires access to your phone's accurate location and other invasive permissions no matter which of their products you are using. This is an important d…

I haven't been keeping up with the legislation updates, but the FAA's proposal for positional reporting required the drone to report the location of the drone and the pilot . It seems to still be their objective under "Why do we need RemoteID" https://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_started/remote_id/drone_pilo... >Remote ID helps the FAA, law enforcement, and other federal agencies find the control station when a drone appe…

This point came up in another comment, and it's definitely reasonable - but I still don't see why DJI would require your location when using products other than drones, which they do. And as I noted before, they are providing an app which has been axed from the official store. Aside from this, as I'm sure you're aware, any information that DJI collect has a nonzero chance of being handed over the the Chinese authorities for any reason whatsoever.

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#52

Post by mschuster91 »

magic_hamster wrote: post #36
mschuster91 wrote: post #6

Now if there were any replacement for DJI I'd be happy... their tech stack is weird AF (e.g. you can only view synchronized flightbooks on your DJI RC controller or on the phone if you're using the sticks-only controller but not on the website or the macOS/Windows companion app, the damn expensive DJI RC controller doesn't do HDMI/DP output, the controllers can't be re-used between drone generations, DJI Fly is only…

DJI definitely got the jump on this market, and more annoyingly, they make pretty good products if not for the trust issues. But nothing lasts forever.

Agreed, but my point is that without serious government funding and general intervention DJI are far too far ahead for European companies to catch up.

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#53

Post by kayodelycaon »

mbreese wrote: post #37
magic_hamster wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might not be the best way to go about it because what you care about in this scenario is the location of the drone, not the operator, who might stand outside the no flight zone. Which is another reason to use the drone's GPS signal in the app instead of your phone location. Either way when using a drone they will know your location, but there's no reason to let DJI access this information when using every single…

It might download a new restriction zone set based upon where the operator is. Without knowing anything about the internals of the drone, it would not be possible for the drone to have a full set of restricted areas for the planet. They change, get updated, etc… For a drone, I understand the requirement. If you are using a drone, giving up your personal GPS location isn’t a big ask. You must be within sight line of y…

I don't see why a drone couldn't have a massive set of lat-long boundaries unless disk space or CPU is severely limited. Text doesn't take up much space.

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#54

Post by justsomehnguy »

magic_hamster wrote: post #45
mym1990 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t the GPS on phone be primarily so that the drone knows where to go in case of emergency? I have also used a drone to follow me while on a bicycle or in a car…it seems like the phone would need GPS there as well. Wondering if GPS on the drone would dramatically affect battery life as well?

> where to go in case of emergency In case of emergency, drones just land where they are, or they could try to go back to the point of origin. Depending on the emergency, the drone might lose connection with the operator, in which case your own location is not very useful. I didn't run into emergencies lately but usually as far as I know the operator sets out to retrieve the drone. > Wondering if GPS on the drone wou…

> or they could try to go back to the point of origin.

Great idea you if origin was on the boat.

I don't know why you all on the fence here, even I, who never used those drones, understand what first and foremost it is for the ability for the drone to return to the current/last known position of operator.

Yes, it could be used to send your location directly to CCP's secret service, but you can't have the GPS and eat^W don't have it too.

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#55

Post by orangepurple »

aardvarkr wrote: post #50
twawaaay wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The drone can refuse to takeoff or fly into restricted space based just on its own GPS. It absolutely does not require to track the pilot.

But then how would they be able to sell your location data? It’s a crucial revenue stream! /s They do sell a tool to police and governments that allow them to track drone operators. The Ukraine military uses drones extensively to monitor the Russians from the air and assist with artillery accuracy but any time they would launch a dji drone Russia had access to that software and would send an artillery shell to the pi…

Russians, like Ukrainians, and all other government forces in the world, have extensive experience triangulating transmitted signals in warzones. Considering that these drones rely on bidirectional communication, it is obvious where the pilot is without hacking DJI. A drone operator in a warzone appears like an active microwave oven with its door stuck open operating from a deserted area. Militaries can triangulate those signals for decades.

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#56

Post by magic_hamster »

mschuster91 wrote: post #52
magic_hamster wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DJI definitely got the jump on this market, and more annoyingly, they make pretty good products if not for the trust issues. But nothing lasts forever.

Agreed, but my point is that without serious government funding and general intervention DJI are far too far ahead for European companies to catch up.

Drones have an extensive use in defense industries and just because the west produces less consumer models doesn't mean the tech isn't there. It will take banning DJI for them to quickly see they're not as far ahead as you imagine. It will probably cost more to buy though.

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#57

Post by RobotToaster »

germinalphrase wrote: post #16
mschuster91 wrote: post #6

Now if there were any replacement for DJI I'd be happy... their tech stack is weird AF (e.g. you can only view synchronized flightbooks on your DJI RC controller or on the phone if you're using the sticks-only controller but not on the website or the macOS/Windows companion app, the damn expensive DJI RC controller doesn't do HDMI/DP output, the controllers can't be re-used between drone generations, DJI Fly is only…

“ Seriously the EU and US need to step up and establish or at least fund companies that can compete with DJI and other sanctioned entities.” Establishing legible regulations, yes - but why should taxpayers fund drone companies? What is the public benefit in doing so?

In an ideal world it would fund a non-profit to develop open source software and hardware for the good of all.

In reality it will just end up funding a contractor with good lobbyists.

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#58

Post by mschuster91 »

magic_hamster wrote: post #56
mschuster91 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, but my point is that without serious government funding and general intervention DJI are far too far ahead for European companies to catch up.

Drones have an extensive use in defense industries and just because the west produces less consumer models doesn't mean the tech isn't there. It will take banning DJI for them to quickly see they're not as far ahead as you imagine. It will probably cost more to buy though.

The thing is, consumer drones are widespread and generate a lot of data. Not just about the general performance of the drone or AI (like Tesla does), but also about weather conditions such as wind, or population densities that are classified by the drone's AI. All of this can be fed into massive data warehouses for later analysis - and the more drones one has, the better the quality of the derived data. In turn, that data can be used by the military for all sorts of planning and general intel collection.

Given that DJI has 76% of the market, the largest competitor (shockingly Intel - no idea they made drones?!) has 4% and the rest barely hits ~3%, it's safe to assume that no competitor comes even close to DJI [1].

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1254982/global-market-sh...

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#59

Post by magic_hamster »

germinalphrase wrote: post #16
mschuster91 wrote: post #6

Now if there were any replacement for DJI I'd be happy... their tech stack is weird AF (e.g. you can only view synchronized flightbooks on your DJI RC controller or on the phone if you're using the sticks-only controller but not on the website or the macOS/Windows companion app, the damn expensive DJI RC controller doesn't do HDMI/DP output, the controllers can't be re-used between drone generations, DJI Fly is only…

“ Seriously the EU and US need to step up and establish or at least fund companies that can compete with DJI and other sanctioned entities.” Establishing legible regulations, yes - but why should taxpayers fund drone companies? What is the public benefit in doing so?

The public is already funding drone research, but it's all in defense and military.

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#60

Post by thetinguy »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #53
mbreese wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might download a new restriction zone set based upon where the operator is. Without knowing anything about the internals of the drone, it would not be possible for the drone to have a full set of restricted areas for the planet. They change, get updated, etc… For a drone, I understand the requirement. If you are using a drone, giving up your personal GPS location isn’t a big ask. You must be within sight line of y…

I don't see why a drone couldn't have a massive set of lat-long boundaries unless disk space or CPU is severely limited. Text doesn't take up much space.

The list of restricted airspaces is not static.
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