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Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

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Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#51

Post by Bud »

jrm4 wrote: post #42
selfmodruntime wrote: post #22

The fact that an athlete in a competitive sport was allowed to partake in an event even after admitting to cheating not only once, but twice, is outrageous in itself.

Right? I completely didn't understand this part? In pretty much everything else, you cheat, you're basically done.

Oh. Really? I mean, not in baseball. Not in football. Not in basketball. Not even in President of the United States.

What is this alternate reality you're in, and what is your list of "everything else"? Citations, please.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#52

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

perihelions wrote: post #9
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #6

Cheating at 3+2 games while streaming? How's it is even possible to input all moves/positions into a chess program in parallel too main game and also while commenting? IMO it is impossible without some very specialized software or external assistance who would do the clicks. And how does he cheat in over the board events?

Computer vision for chess is widely available (and very useful!) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19563768 ( "Chessvision.ai – Analyze chess position from websites, images or video" , 49 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21162466 ( "Show HN: ChessBoss – enhancing physical chessboards with computer vision" , 36 comments)

Things that are easy for some members of HN crowd are likely not that easy for a 19yo person who's only notable achievement in life so far is being really good at chess (well, presumably). Such software also doesn't explain his OTB results, which are consistent with his online results.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#53

Post by edgarvaldes »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #3

It's important to note that the investigation was conducted by chess.com, which is hardly an impartial authority in the matter.

On the other hand, the analysis is about online games on the chess.com platform.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#54

Post by jrm4 »

Bud wrote: post #51
jrm4 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? I completely didn't understand this part? In pretty much everything else, you cheat, you're basically done.

Oh. Really? I mean, not in baseball. Not in football. Not in basketball. Not even in President of the United States. What is this alternate reality you're in, and what is your list of "everything else"? Citations, please.

I didn't go deep on it, but it seemed like dude's cheating was repeated, open, and notorious.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#56

Post by ghank »

angio wrote: post #46
zqlamp wrote: post #25

The chess.com campaign continues. 100 games are nothing online, Carlsen/Firouzja play that in a single night. The headline is pure propaganda and omits the word "online". In fact, the article tries to paint Niemann as a liar while the purported facts pretty much match what he admitted to. One cheating in a titled tournament at age 12 and multiple cheats at the beginning of 2020. He said he was 16, so he was barely 17…

He cheated in prize money tournaments. That's borderline fraud.

Here is Carlsen taking a move from Howell in a Lichess prize tournament, which he'd never do OTB:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNMcnrmb97g

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#58

Post by robswc »

antiterra wrote: post #45
selfmodruntime wrote: post #22

The fact that an athlete in a competitive sport was allowed to partake in an event even after admitting to cheating not only once, but twice, is outrageous in itself.

The admissions were from when he was 12 and 16; many so societies generally believe in redemption from childhood transgressions.

12 is fine... 16 is iffy... it was only 3 years ago.

I'm personally a bit frustrated with the ever changing standards for adolescents. They are as responsible or naive as people want them to be for whatever their bias calls for. (not saying you btw, just in general).

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#59

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

rjj wrote: post #28

Just to make sure I read this right: he most likely cheated in 11 online tournaments from 2015 - 2020. Why not analyze his recent and over-the-board games?

Kenneth Regan did that and came to a conclusion that there were no cheating.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#60

Post by EddySchauHai »

tobyjsullivan wrote: post #20

Interesting piece. It highlights how it's hard to differentiate between someone genuinely playing at a level higher, and a cheater. A few things I noted from this article: 1. The driving force behind the original accusations is that Magnus felt his opponent wasn't "exerting" himself enough, compared to other young prodigies. 2. Chess.com's case is that his results are "statistically extraordinary." 3. There is a hist…

> it's hard to differentiate between someone genuinely playing at a level higher, and a cheater

Actually, it isn't! Great chess bots have very different play styles and there are people currently studying them. It's very unlikely someone will come out of nowhere so to speak (as in, not on some amazing rise as a young child) with these types of techniques. I'm nowhere near these levels of chess players but have played competitively for my county as a school-kid and still play a couple hundred games a year so have some idea.

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