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Europe: How to Become Poor Peasants Again

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Re: Europe: How to Become Poor Peasants Again

#51

Post by weatherlite »

bitL wrote: post #49
weatherlite wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They can't, with blown up pipes they can't just start receiving gas they need. Pipes can be reconstructed, peace deals can be made and shut down gas fields can be reopened (looking at you Groningen). > It really looks like some group wants EU all in, so we should be prepared for the worst possible outcome (WW3, some life remaining on the planet) if that's even possible. Well if that happens it happens - what's your…

Pipes can't be reconstructed quickly and can be blown up again later. My guess southern hemisphere might have some chance of survival if SHTF so that's where I will be heading. Most people will die gruesome prolonged deaths from starvation, broken bones or radiation, only a fraction will be vaporized instantly.

You must be a hoot at parties! :)

Look I'm not saying it's an impossibility but I don't think it's very likely any time soon.

> Most people will die gruesome prolonged deaths from starvation, broken bones or radiation

Most people die a pretty shitty death from cancer / degenration / dementia. I can't see how you can escape that, it awaits us all .(btw why the south? Are they immune to nuclear winter / food shortages / climate change?)

Re: Europe: How to Become Poor Peasants Again

#52

Post by hobotime »

yucky wrote: post #39
teagoat wrote: post #32

To sum up the article, they claim: * Somebody (probably America) sabotaged the Nordstream 2 gas pipeline. * That's related to the war in Ukraine because? wars are always about resources? * The EU doesn't have any options to replace the gas that needs to come from Russia. * That's going to drive all EU citizens back to an agrarian lifestyle. * And also, the EU is too weak of an institution to defend its citizens. It r…

I'm curious what the alternate theory of Nord 2 sabotage is? Does anybody other than the US benefit?

It lets plenty of EU politicians off the hook for the upcoming winter of suffering.

The narrative will no longer be "Why did we get in bed with the Russians for our energy?" and instead will be "Too bad about the broken pipeline!"

Re: Europe: How to Become Poor Peasants Again

#53

Post by bitL »

weatherlite wrote: post #51
bitL wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pipes can't be reconstructed quickly and can be blown up again later. My guess southern hemisphere might have some chance of survival if SHTF so that's where I will be heading. Most people will die gruesome prolonged deaths from starvation, broken bones or radiation, only a fraction will be vaporized instantly.

You must be a hoot at parties! :) Look I'm not saying it's an impossibility but I don't think it's very likely any time soon. > Most people will die gruesome prolonged deaths from starvation, broken bones or radiation Most people die a pretty shitty death from cancer / degenration / dementia. I can't see how you can escape that, it awaits us all .(btw why the south? Are they immune to nuclear winter / food shortages…

Something with wind streams partially shielding southern hemisphere from winds in northern hemisphere. So by the time fallout reaches southern hemisphere, it will be partially diluted. Of course, assuming AUS/NZ/BRA/ARG won't get nuked as well, then it might be moot.

Maybe I am overly pessimistic, but I've seen my share of corp/gov dysfunctionalities and nothing gives me any assurance current "leaders" would stop before blowing up the planet.

Re: Europe: How to Become Poor Peasants Again

#54

Post by [deleted] »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #20

This is Russian/Tankie propoganda. Notice how the author subtly implies that America was the instigator in cutting Russian supplies to EU. Ignoring the fact that it was Putin who invaded Ukraine and Crimea, and started this whole sequence of events. It was Putin who decided to cut gas supplies, long before the pipeline was sabotaged. This is motivated article which speaks half-truths with the goal of casting events i…

[deleted]

Re: Europe: How to Become Poor Peasants Again

#55

Post by caeril »

brabel wrote: post #38
TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #20

This is Russian/Tankie propoganda. Notice how the author subtly implies that America was the instigator in cutting Russian supplies to EU. Ignoring the fact that it was Putin who invaded Ukraine and Crimea, and started this whole sequence of events. It was Putin who decided to cut gas supplies, long before the pipeline was sabotaged. This is motivated article which speaks half-truths with the goal of casting events i…

> It was Putin who decided to cut gas supplies, long before the pipeline was sabotaged. That's factually incorrect. Germany said before the invasion, and followed through with it, that it would not allow NordStream2 to come into operation if Russia invaded. Listen: Putin did start the war and caused most problems that are causing Europe's energy prices to skyrocket... but how can we just forget the order of event so…

> how can we just forget the order of events

A high IQ is neither a necessary nor sufficient defense against well-crafted Western propaganda efforts.

Hackernews falls for CIA talking points just as effectively as a Redneck falls for QAnon.

There should be no surprise here.

Re: Europe: How to Become Poor Peasants Again

#56

Post by Gud »

yucky wrote: post #39
teagoat wrote: post #32

To sum up the article, they claim: * Somebody (probably America) sabotaged the Nordstream 2 gas pipeline. * That's related to the war in Ukraine because? wars are always about resources? * The EU doesn't have any options to replace the gas that needs to come from Russia. * That's going to drive all EU citizens back to an agrarian lifestyle. * And also, the EU is too weak of an institution to defend its citizens. It r…

I'm curious what the alternate theory of Nord 2 sabotage is? Does anybody other than the US benefit?

could as easily(likely, in my opinion) be Russia. Putin knows that the bridges to Europe are already burnt - might as well try to hurt the Europeans as much as they can for supporting Ukraine. Yes it hurts Russia economically, but for Europe it’s even worse.

Re: Europe: How to Become Poor Peasants Again

#57

Post by Gud »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #5

I’m currently in Chiang Mai, a city known for its digital nomad/entrepreneurship scene. Lots of European natives here who’ve been in the city for months. Many have even moved here permanently. Talking to them, there is a definite sense of pessimism, bordering on fatalism, about them. Some of this is reflected in salaries - skilled white collar workers get paid well on average in Europe, but their salaries haven’t kep…

The Indian middle class makes about the same(and often more) money than their European counterparts, I agree. But the Indian middle class is a much smaller part of the population, and the working class in particularly Western Europe has a much, much, much higher standard of living than the working class in India.

Re: Europe: How to Become Poor Peasants Again

#58

Post by tomjen3 »

csdvrx wrote: post #4
akie wrote: post #2

One of the constant refrains in the Anglo-Saxon world is to describe Europe and the EU as permanently on the verge of collapse. It has not occurred so far, and it will not occur this time either.

Well, with inflation, war, various shortages, lack of power for the winter, I'm very trustful in human nature, but that may be a little too much for Europe.

Thats overstating it. Things aren't looking good here in Denmark, but it takes far more than some bad economic times to crush us. Inflation is bad, but not unprecedented, neither is energy price spikes.

We are not currently seeing a shortage of much, certainly things have gone up in price, but we do not have the shortages we had with Covid, there are no restrictions on what I can do and the war hasn't impacted me in any way, except that it is the thing on the news.

It is possible we will lack power for the winter, its also possible putin nukes somebody. Not likely.

Re: Europe: How to Become Poor Peasants Again

#59

Post by shashurup »

Gud wrote: post #56
yucky wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what the alternate theory of Nord 2 sabotage is? Does anybody other than the US benefit?

could as easily(likely, in my opinion) be Russia. Putin knows that the bridges to Europe are already burnt - might as well try to hurt the Europeans as much as they can for supporting Ukraine. Yes it hurts Russia economically, but for Europe it’s even worse.

Putin controls the valves, he doesn't need to blow it up to hurt the Europeans. As it turned out recently it is quite easy to come up with a ton of excuses to stop the supply. With the NS blown there is no leverage anymore. So, IMO this version doesn't hold to scrutiny.

Re: Europe: How to Become Poor Peasants Again

#60

Post by notacoward »

shashurup wrote: post #59
Gud wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

could as easily(likely, in my opinion) be Russia. Putin knows that the bridges to Europe are already burnt - might as well try to hurt the Europeans as much as they can for supporting Ukraine. Yes it hurts Russia economically, but for Europe it’s even worse.

Putin controls the valves, he doesn't need to blow it up to hurt the Europeans. As it turned out recently it is quite easy to come up with a ton of excuses to stop the supply. With the NS blown there is no leverage anymore. So, IMO this version doesn't hold to scrutiny.

> Putin controls the valves, he doesn't need to blow it up to hurt the Europeans.

If the plan is to come in later as the savior of an impoverished Europe then yes, he does need to blow it up. Shutting off the valves makes him the bad guy, and people will remember. Having it blown up by some unknown party, ideally the US, lets him pretend it was all out of his control and he's doing the best he can to help his dear friends in Europe.

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