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Tesla AI Day 2022

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Re: Tesla AI Day 2022

#51

Post by tim333 »

ncr100 wrote: post #46

A useful robot with initial purpose that takes job away, now, primarily from black and brown people. To be clear this is a tech product that increases profitability for a company. Are ethics discussed in the presentation? Social equity? Watching now ... it's 3hrs .. looking for ethics consideration. .. ok he simplifies what an Economy is, to the theoretical. Can an economy be one which frees marginalized people from…

It's a bit of a separate issue. When Ford first mass produced cars if probably reduced jobs in buggy whip manufacturing and similar fields but that's more a thing for the government to maybe worry about rather than car makers.

Re: Tesla AI Day 2022

#52

Post by naveen99 »

ncr100 wrote: post #46

A useful robot with initial purpose that takes job away, now, primarily from black and brown people. To be clear this is a tech product that increases profitability for a company. Are ethics discussed in the presentation? Social equity? Watching now ... it's 3hrs .. looking for ethics consideration. .. ok he simplifies what an Economy is, to the theoretical. Can an economy be one which frees marginalized people from…

Elon mentions near the beginning that optimus being developed inside tesla, a public company [as opposed to spacex which is a private company], as part of the governance model.

But this is a recruiting / technical event, so you won't find more ethics considerations in the rest of the video probably.

Re: Tesla AI Day 2022

#53

Post by nixarn »

addicted wrote: post #26
nixarn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I look at that and I want a self driving car by Tesla. Did you see the rest of the presentation about their self-driving tech? This was amazing by this with the short time it's been in development, and the vision for this project is beyond anything that has been done with humanoid robots. Sure they might fail, but it's an exciting venture to follow.

Have they driven from LA to NYC as Elon promises they would by 2019? Are Model S owners making more money than they are paying in leases thanks to lending their cars as auto cabs like Elon promised they would by 2020? Is hyper loop even a thing or just something Elon admitted was something he came up with to try and kill public transport alternatives? The Boston Dynamics Robot is far more of a commercial reality than…

Yeah for sure, the autopilot claims and did not come to fruition, for sure, lots of misses when Elon thinks something happens and when it actually will. I don't think personally he's intentionally deceiving the masses.

Not really sure about the hyperloop / train thingy, need to read up more on it.

And BD's robot is not a commercial reality, how many have sold (if we're talking about Atlas and not the dog)? The Cybertruck will start production next year, sure it's behind initial time-schedule but it will be produced and sold in high numbers.

Re: Tesla AI Day 2022

#54

Post by tim333 »

foobiekr wrote: post #44
Seanambers wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unrealistic timeframes also has the benefit of getting the most out of people. But Elon is getting quite a bit of flak for the expectations it sets. It sure will be interesting to see where FSD & Teslabot is in a couple of years. The pace of innovation is extremely high at Tesla and should make you wonder what Boston Dynamics, Waymo and others have been up to for all these years.

Making things that actually work outside of imaginationland? How can you look at what they showed yesterday after the rest of the world has made things 109x more capable and conclude that they are innovators in the space? Even the rando Chinese companies have done a better job cloning spot mini than this.

More things working outside of imaginationland than most produce in several lifetimes.

Re: Tesla AI Day 2022

#55

Post by justapassenger »

chinabot wrote: post #11
whinvik wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems strange that this comment was so aggressively down voted. Anything related to Elon gets the same treatment by HN that I feel that Elon invites a visceral rather than an objective reaction.

He's generally a force of good for the world but can come over as a bit of a dick sometimes, there are much worse people out there if you need to hate on someone.

I don’t know. Richest person in the world, whose ego is only thing bigger than his wealth, is pretty good person to direct at least some hate at.

And while some of his lies are just to kill competition/extract money from the rich (like FSD), but some are just disgusting.

With neuralink he was openly telling people for few years that his implants will solve their health issues. Implants that killed most of the monkeys in the labs.

It’s disgusting to lie to people with really serious health conditions, give them false hope and likely have them reject other treatments, because Elon said he’ll fix them. You don’t think it’s a good reason to pour some hate at him?

Re: Tesla AI Day 2022

#56

Post by ncr100 »

naveen99 wrote: post #52
ncr100 wrote: post #46

A useful robot with initial purpose that takes job away, now, primarily from black and brown people. To be clear this is a tech product that increases profitability for a company. Are ethics discussed in the presentation? Social equity? Watching now ... it's 3hrs .. looking for ethics consideration. .. ok he simplifies what an Economy is, to the theoretical. Can an economy be one which frees marginalized people from…

Elon mentions near the beginning that optimus being developed inside tesla, a public company [as opposed to spacex which is a private company], as part of the governance model. But this is a recruiting / technical event, so you won't find more ethics considerations in the rest of the video probably.

Well that's sad.

This has a dramatic impact on society. It's not just like a new GPU technology. This is labor.

Consideration for disrupting labor inequity is going to get worse.

The fact that the money people who own Tesla stock are supposedly in charge is a distraction.

Stock owners don't have motivation to make a long-term socially equitable product.

Re: Tesla AI Day 2022

#57

Post by tim333 »

addicted wrote: post #27
nixarn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There can't be any objective discussions about Elon any more =) John Carmack finds Elon to be smart and really knowledgeable (listen to the latest podcast from Lex Fridman). And you would think HN trusts the words from Carmack? But most think Carmack, who knows Elon personally is wrong, and their opinion based on some random internet articles, is right.

Elon is super smart. He’s also a snake oil salesman. These are not contradictory statements. Unfortunately he chose his intelligence to enrich himself by fooling others. He could have chosen other options. It looked like that was the direction he was going in. By trying to help people. But it’s clear at some point he realized he can make far more money claiming to do something than by actually doing something and dec…

I see no snake oil and a lot of cars, rockets and satellites which all seem to work quite well.

Re: Tesla AI Day 2022

#58

Post by bdlowery »

ncr100 wrote: post #46

A useful robot with initial purpose that takes job away, now, primarily from black and brown people. To be clear this is a tech product that increases profitability for a company. Are ethics discussed in the presentation? Social equity? Watching now ... it's 3hrs .. looking for ethics consideration. .. ok he simplifies what an Economy is, to the theoretical. Can an economy be one which frees marginalized people from…

When shopping carts were introduced into stores people were angry because it would “take away the jobs of the employees shopping for you”.

That’s obviously ridiculous. They went and did more productive things in the store. The same will apply here.

Re: Tesla AI Day 2022

#59

Post by ncr100 »

tim333 wrote: post #51
ncr100 wrote: post #46

A useful robot with initial purpose that takes job away, now, primarily from black and brown people. To be clear this is a tech product that increases profitability for a company. Are ethics discussed in the presentation? Social equity? Watching now ... it's 3hrs .. looking for ethics consideration. .. ok he simplifies what an Economy is, to the theoretical. Can an economy be one which frees marginalized people from…

It's a bit of a separate issue. When Ford first mass produced cars if probably reduced jobs in buggy whip manufacturing and similar fields but that's more a thing for the government to maybe worry about rather than car makers.

Government is ineffective and is responsive to the change after the facts up to the limits of its constituents.

The constituents are lobbyists and poorly organized under-unionized civilians.

So, I don't expect the government to meaningfully produce any accommodation ahead of time, at least in the United States.

Therefore it's up to us as technologists who effectively represents the brains of Tesla, to do that ethical thinking.

Re: Tesla AI Day 2022

#60

Post by ncr100 »

bdlowery wrote: post #58
ncr100 wrote: post #46

A useful robot with initial purpose that takes job away, now, primarily from black and brown people. To be clear this is a tech product that increases profitability for a company. Are ethics discussed in the presentation? Social equity? Watching now ... it's 3hrs .. looking for ethics consideration. .. ok he simplifies what an Economy is, to the theoretical. Can an economy be one which frees marginalized people from…

When shopping carts were introduced into stores people were angry because it would “take away the jobs of the employees shopping for you”. That’s obviously ridiculous. They went and did more productive things in the store. The same will apply here.

He's literally talking about eliminating jobs from the Tesla factory in Fremont. And then he takes a further step and discusses in eliminating all manual labor.

I think it's reasonable to consider the chance a fully mobile non-human humanoid will actually disrupt labor more so than the invention of a shopping cart.

I'm talking about marginalized people who are under educated and have very good reason to believe that they are not a part of the broader society, black and brown people. This is a real group of people.

Take away their labor opportunity and they're not going to suddenly become managers. Maybe someone will train them so that they become robot repair technicians or something else which hasn't been a likely to be automated.

Who is thinking about this for them? They're certainly not thinking about it because they don't think they belong in this society, already, based on how they are actively marginalized, based on evidence.

So it's left up to us as technologists to think about the societal impact of the technology that we're working on.

Edit: furthermore, I have worked in a grocery store and it was not great. I had to go out of my way to engage with people, to get some of that juicy worthwhile socialization, because the job was to move stuff around. Move new blocks of cheese into the freezing cold open refrigerators. Move purchased groceries from the cash register to people's cars. Move carts from the parking lot back into the store. Not great labor. So having a personal shopper job would be awesome by comparison.

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