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iPhone = Privacy?

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Re: iPhone = Privacy?

#51

Post by HunterWare »

jeffbee wrote: post #38

The place where Apple is the most dishonest is in their scaremongering popup dialogs that constantly prompt me to re-authorize Google Maps, which I use daily, to access my location. They exempt themselves from this authorization by laundering Apple Maps location access through "System Services". iOS will never, ever pop up a dialog asking if you were aware that "System Services" has accessed your location on behalf o…

Huh, I use Google Maps daily too and have never had a popup since the first time I used it and picked "While using". I could have picked "Always", which worked too, but choose not to for reasons outlined in other posts here.

You can also easily turn off "Maps" tracking or limit it the same way if you choose.

I got to admit that I don't see the meat in this burger, so to speak.

Re: iPhone = Privacy?

#52

Post by [deleted] »

fsflover wrote: post #46
olivierestsage wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of TVs is now heavily subsidized by the data-mining, though, whereas I don't see much evidence that's the case for Apple products, whatever their other problems (if such evidence does exist, I'd be interested to see it).

> whereas I don't see much evidence that's the case for Apple products https://www.barrons.com/articles/apples-advertising-business...

[deleted]

Re: iPhone = Privacy?

#54

Post by hardnose »

nathancahill wrote: post #50
judge2020 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only one I agree on is the image scanning for CSAM. The idea of a device I own acting as a state informer using AI to detect what it thinks is a crime is not my idea of a step forward. The likely reasoning behind this, although unspoken, was to (at some point in the future) enable E2EE for iCloud Photos. Currently, Apple doesn't do nearly any CSAM scanning on iCloud Photos[0], so the FBI et al. are pushing for…

Yeah, I'm a huge privacy advocate but the part people are missing with this fiasco is that client-side scanning before _anything_ is uploaded is objectively less invasive than every single photo being scanned on iCloud (the direction legislation is heading). Again, this is an _opt-in_ behavior when you enable iCloud Photos, for photos that you're trying to upload (currently not E2EE) anyway. The feature comes with th…

>client-side scanning before _anything_ is uploaded is objectively less invasive than every single photo being scanned on iCloud

That's like saying cyanide tastes better than strychnine. It might be true, but I'd rather just not have either one.

Re: iPhone = Privacy?

#55

Post by spideymans »

fsflover wrote: post #46
olivierestsage wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of TVs is now heavily subsidized by the data-mining, though, whereas I don't see much evidence that's the case for Apple products, whatever their other problems (if such evidence does exist, I'd be interested to see it).

> whereas I don't see much evidence that's the case for Apple products https://www.barrons.com/articles/apples-advertising-business...

I don’t see what the issue is, unless Apple is violating my privacy to serve their ads.

(I’m not a fan of ads, but don’t see how this is necessarily a privacy issue)

Re: iPhone = Privacy?

#56

Post by saiya-jin »

bb123 wrote: post #37

For me it's a question of incentives. Apple makes the vast majority of its income selling hardware to people. That makes me the customer. Google makes the vast majority of its income selling user data to advertisers. That makes me the product and advertisers the customer. Which company has more of an incentive to compromise my privacy by accessing my data in a dishonest way?

Thats a bit naive approach. Both (and other) companies exist primarily to earn money to owners. If Apple will find it can extract even more money from consumers on top of hardware, ie overpriced forced walled gardens called app shops, it will. As long as it doesn't affects its main money pipeline which are devices. Like it or not, most folks don't care about nor understand privacy, so Apple has a lot of leeway there.

The idea of taking Apple seriously on privacy is a bit of bad joke when they block Firefox having ublock origin or implement at least the same for its Safari, and give users full option to install plugins for this browser (even if only from Apple-curated plugin store). It would be trivial for army of Apple devs to create similar blocking, yet they just curate what ads you see based on what they think is maximum acceptable amount & type for users, so no real privacy choice there.

I've heard even comments here on HN about how its actually a good thing to not have this freedom as 'power user'. Can't say I know how to respond to such schizophrenia so I'll pass on that, everybody can make up their own opinion.

Apple - fix this, and I will start taking your PR about security seriously. Till then, I simply can't since its obvious you talk more than actually do where it matters most, the wild unruly Internet of these days.

Re: iPhone = Privacy?

#57

Post by fsflover »

bb123 wrote: post #37

For me it's a question of incentives. Apple makes the vast majority of its income selling hardware to people. That makes me the customer. Google makes the vast majority of its income selling user data to advertisers. That makes me the product and advertisers the customer. Which company has more of an incentive to compromise my privacy by accessing my data in a dishonest way?

Apple has indeed less incentives than Google [0]. But a third alternative also exists (see my other comment).

[0] https://www.barrons.com/articles/apples-advertising-business...

Re: iPhone = Privacy?

#58

Post by fsflover »

spideymans wrote: post #55
fsflover wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whereas I don't see much evidence that's the case for Apple products https://www.barrons.com/articles/apples-advertising-business...

I don’t see what the issue is, unless Apple is violating my privacy to serve their ads. (I’m not a fan of ads, but don’t see how this is necessarily a privacy issue)

Ads that rely on tracking is a problem for privacy, not all ads.

Re: iPhone = Privacy?

#59

Post by sbuk »

fsflover wrote: post #36
CharlesW wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But why do they have to know your phone number and location? How can I avoid that? By not using a phone, because your carrier knows this information too and also sells this data (Apple does not).

The topic is about Apple knowing your data, please do not shift goals.

Correcting an incorrect assertion is not shifting goalposts.

Re: iPhone = Privacy?

#60

Post by falcolas »

hardnose wrote: post #49
falcolas wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> has any real world privacy problem ever occurred because of this Yes. People who don't quite understand how Siri works will divulge a lot of personal information. There's many stories from workers at these third parties about how much intimate detail they've heard when listening to these clips. Now, that said, Google and Amazon do this too. It's truly a strike against all providers.

>There's many stories from workers at these third parties about how much intimate detail they've heard when listening to these clips. Assuming those internet stories are even true - can anyone show me actual harm occurring to anyone based on Apple's use of Siri training? I've heard some Alexa stories, but frankly, Apple seems to do a really good job of protecting that information, at least so far, at least as far as…

A lack of reported harm does not imply a lack of the ability to harm.

"Siri, order medicine X and deliver to address Y" is a simple example of how a simple command - whether valid or not - can expose someone's medical history, and while an ethical reviewer (probably 99%+ of reviewers) would do nothing with it, an unethical reviewer could.

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