Live data from Hacker News

The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

spectrum.ieee.org

51–60 of 377 posts

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#51
post #15
post #3

One thing I don't see addressed in this article is that as far as I know, it's basically impossible to trust the reported price or volume of NFT transactions, because there's no way to distinguish fake wash trades from real ones. So it's hard to draw any conclusions about whether the data reflects an actual peak in user activity, or just a peak in scams.

Isn't that always the case? My friend was talking about a rare Magic The Gathering card being worth a silly amount of money... Except the card had only been sold once or twice at that price. Unless you have enough comparable items (e.g. paintings by the Dutch masters) it's really difficult to determine the value of something that's rarely sold.

Trading cards and NFTs have a lot in common.

- Scarcity, artificial or otherwise.

- Subjective value. Neither an NFT or a trading card provides substantial, measurable utility to its owner. But, we can agree they have "value" of some kind.

- Lack of oversight. Governments doesn't have entire offices monitoring irregular sale prices for Obelisk the Tormentor or Mickey Mantle.

- Low transaction volume. If you're the only market-maker, you can set your own price.

These attributes lead me to believe that NFTs and trading cards would both very effective tools for someone trying to launder money.

You can take away any one of those attributes, and the asset would become much more difficult to use for money laundering. For NFTs, oversight seems inevitable in the next couple of years. One can only hope.

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#52
post #3

One thing I don't see addressed in this article is that as far as I know, it's basically impossible to trust the reported price or volume of NFT transactions, because there's no way to distinguish fake wash trades from real ones. So it's hard to draw any conclusions about whether the data reflects an actual peak in user activity, or just a peak in scams.

Correct, not possible if you dont want someone to know But of you’ve ever traded NFTs its hard to really begin with the assumption that trading volume is fake because bots and market makers buy from you so fast. You know that wasn't a fake or wash trade, while there is a pervasive audience of onlookers that are trying to prove a negative. You know that funds in bankruptcy court have successfully sold $30,000,000 wort…

Right, I'm not saying there's no real trading, just that it's impossible to say how much. Which makes the graphs and anecdotes quoted in the article a bit meaningless, IMO.

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#53
post #14

I feel that NFT pricing exuberance (or lack thereof) is distracting both critics and even fans from the core innovation here - 1. the capacity to signify a digital original and 2. to decentrally organize ownership (though it's more like possession) of these items. The ultimate question for crypto as a whole is whether the mass market wants digital possession that transcends a single centrally managed database. Person…

Most regular people really, really need a working "I forgot my password" feature.

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#54
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that always the case? My friend was talking about a rare Magic The Gathering card being worth a silly amount of money... Except the card had only been sold once or twice at that price. Unless you have enough comparable items (e.g. paintings by the Dutch masters) it's really difficult to determine the value of something that's rarely sold.

> Except the card had only been sold once or twice at that price. You see this practice in art and collector car sales. It's rumored that if you see a painting go for an insane amount of money, often these sales are between "friendly" parties for the sole purpose of driving up the value of that art.

The same can happen at low prices so that the owners can claim the paintings have lost value and can offset some other capital gains.

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#55
post #14

I feel that NFT pricing exuberance (or lack thereof) is distracting both critics and even fans from the core innovation here - 1. the capacity to signify a digital original and 2. to decentrally organize ownership (though it's more like possession) of these items. The ultimate question for crypto as a whole is whether the mass market wants digital possession that transcends a single centrally managed database. Person…

> 1. the capacity to signify a digital original and 2. to decentrally organize ownership (though it's more like possession) of these items.

There is nothing novel in this. You could do it in Bitcoin too by agreeing that a certain transaction structure that includes a digital hash is a valid way to signify an original with that hash, and a spend from that address represents an ownership change.

It's simply a convention, and people don't do it because it's mostly a useless diversion from established ways to record and trade IP.

The true NFT innovation is the marketing gimmick that such a convention has any real world relevance and somehow magically makes the IP non-fungible. This enabled massive speculation on essentially worthless (and fully fungible) IP, expressed in a clunky and impractical distributed database.

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#56
post #14

I feel that NFT pricing exuberance (or lack thereof) is distracting both critics and even fans from the core innovation here - 1. the capacity to signify a digital original and 2. to decentrally organize ownership (though it's more like possession) of these items. The ultimate question for crypto as a whole is whether the mass market wants digital possession that transcends a single centrally managed database. Person…

The core failure seems a lot more fundamental than that to me. The only things you can "digitally" possess are digital items. But people don't care about owning blockchain entries. They want to own paintings and houses. Property rights are a legal matter, however. The only way ownership of a blockchain entry can entail ownership of a physical good is if the law says so. And, at least for now, law is centralized. Only the state can make it and only the state can enforce it. If the entity that arbitrates and decides property claims is centralized, whether or not their ledger is also centralized makes no difference.

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#58

I read these articles sometimes about crypto games, but they all never seem to describe the actual game, it’s like crypto is the primary concern, and game is secondary, and i’m getting the distinct impression none of these games are any fun and everyone in the space has to avoid mentioning it. I think that the people writing these things only have a very slim grasp of gaming, but they know it would be a good market t…

CryptoKitties is a lot of fun, for what it is. It's super deep and while it's more of a sandbox than a typical game, I became obsessed with it when it came out, though not for monetary reasons (if it has one huge drawback as a game, it's always been how much it costs IMO).

Became so obsessed that I ended up hired by Dapper Labs and working on the CryptoKitties team, later helped design and launch NBA Top Shot on Flow. Now that we have (the markedly cheaper and easier) Flow and lots and lots of lessons learned from building NFT products, I'm excited for us to bring the next generation of CryptoKitties to life.

If you want to check out a fun crypto game that just recently launched from another developer, I urge you to check out dimensionxnft.com with an open mind.

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#59

I read these articles sometimes about crypto games, but they all never seem to describe the actual game, it’s like crypto is the primary concern, and game is secondary, and i’m getting the distinct impression none of these games are any fun and everyone in the space has to avoid mentioning it. I think that the people writing these things only have a very slim grasp of gaming, but they know it would be a good market t…

CryptoKitties is a lot of fun, for what it is. It's super deep and while it's more of a sandbox than a typical game, I became obsessed with it when it came out, though not for monetary reasons (if it has one huge drawback as a game, it's always been how much it costs IMO). Became so obsessed that I ended up hired by Dapper Labs and working on the CryptoKitties team, later helped design and launch NBA Top Shot on Flow…

OK but WHAT IS THE GAME? What do you DO with CryptoKitties?

Re: The collapse of cryptokitties, the first big blockchain game

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of wash trading in the fine art world is certainly not zero.

True, but I don't thing wash trading is integral to convincing people that fine art is something people want...

There's perhaps a difference between an original DaVinci and whatever the latest paint splatter on canvas modern art is, though.
Post reply on HN