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Scala isn't fun anymore

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Re: Scala isn't fun anymore

#51

Post by salmo »

ctrlmeta wrote: post #11

> I’m also having affectionate memories of JavaScript and Python I am afraid, things are equally messy in JavaScript and Python too. "X language isn't fun anymore" is exactly how I feel about X = JavaScript, X = Python, X = C++, X = Java and many other languages. There was a time when I found Python and Js to be very fun languages. But recently the ecosystem has been becoming a mess. Build breakages on dependency upg…

I agree with this so much. I loved Python for decades. Kinda loathe it now. All scripting languages have fallen into this, managing interpreter, test tools, and dependencies in a dev environment, CI/CD, and prod is more work than doing new stuff.

Java/Spring is obnoxious. Spring just enjoys breaking APIs or behavior on patch releases so much. Well, and I have a personal dislike of Java/C++/C# style OO. The temptation to over engineer is too great.

I’ve been enjoying Go more (I have Pascal and C roots). But I feel the pain coming as the ecosystem grows.

I haven’t LISPed in years. Maybe I’ll tinker in Clojure again. I don’t care for Emacs, and last time I checked, setting up a CL was a PITA. Sigh, even choosing a LISP/Scheme is a journey in itself.

Re: Scala isn't fun anymore

#52

Post by nickcox »

practice9 wrote: post #25
petesergeant wrote: post #6

> the ecosystem is essentially a microcosm of the US political landscape what does this mean?

constant drama. Travis Brown (a very sociopathic and toxic, straight up unstable person) tried to cancel John A De Goes, total shitshow ensued. FYI, Travis has created scripts to auto-dox people on Twitter if he doesn't like them. Travis also left Scala ecosystem after lashing out at literally everybody including Martin Odersky Reason: De Goes invited a speaker to his LambdaConf conference, without knowing that speak…

I might be misremembering but wasn't there a pro slavery angle as well?

Re: Scala isn't fun anymore

#53

Post by [deleted] »

ctrlmeta wrote: post #11

> I’m also having affectionate memories of JavaScript and Python I am afraid, things are equally messy in JavaScript and Python too. "X language isn't fun anymore" is exactly how I feel about X = JavaScript, X = Python, X = C++, X = Java and many other languages. There was a time when I found Python and Js to be very fun languages. But recently the ecosystem has been becoming a mess. Build breakages on dependency upg…

[deleted]

Re: Scala isn't fun anymore

#54

Post by auggierose »

hocuspocus wrote: post #12
auggierose wrote: post #3

This guy loves sbt. For me it's one of the main reasons to use TypeScript instead of Scala.js. npm is so much better. I have been writing a lot of code in Scala.js and Scala about a decade ago, but thinking now of it, I feel only dread. Scala the language is nice enough, but the whole ecosystem around it is so stuffy.

Give Mill a try. You need to realize the Scala ecosystem is not monolithic. Things are mostly fine if you stay within a corner, but can get complicated when you start mixing dependencies from multiple domains. I think that is true for many languages. The JVM ecosystem is rich, and that comes at a price.

Oh, didn't hear of it, interesting.

But anyway, I am focusing on the browser these days, and a Scala.js that a) doesn't interoperate with TypeScript b) doesn't allow me to author npm packages is too much of a hassle.

Re: Scala isn't fun anymore

#55

Post by auggierose »

nickcox wrote: post #52
practice9 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

constant drama. Travis Brown (a very sociopathic and toxic, straight up unstable person) tried to cancel John A De Goes, total shitshow ensued. FYI, Travis has created scripts to auto-dox people on Twitter if he doesn't like them. Travis also left Scala ecosystem after lashing out at literally everybody including Martin Odersky Reason: De Goes invited a speaker to his LambdaConf conference, without knowing that speak…

I might be misremembering but wasn't there a pro slavery angle as well?

Jesus. Yeah, I will stay with TypeScript.

Re: Scala isn't fun anymore

#56

Post by halfmatthalfcat »

the_duke wrote: post #24

The big takeaway here for me is that Akka has changed license to BSL. It's almost crazy to me that such a fundamental and widely used project would switch to such a restrictive license. Some more details here: https://coralogix.com/blog/akka-license-change/ > Lightbend are operating on a “per core” model, with their base license starting at $1995 per core (defined as a thread or vCPU) > The license is only enforced i…

2.6.19 will be forked and a community-driven Akka will emerge eventually.

Re: Scala isn't fun anymore

#58

Post by billfruit »

salmo wrote: post #51
ctrlmeta wrote: post #11

> I’m also having affectionate memories of JavaScript and Python I am afraid, things are equally messy in JavaScript and Python too. "X language isn't fun anymore" is exactly how I feel about X = JavaScript, X = Python, X = C++, X = Java and many other languages. There was a time when I found Python and Js to be very fun languages. But recently the ecosystem has been becoming a mess. Build breakages on dependency upg…

I agree with this so much. I loved Python for decades. Kinda loathe it now. All scripting languages have fallen into this, managing interpreter, test tools, and dependencies in a dev environment, CI/CD, and prod is more work than doing new stuff. Java/Spring is obnoxious. Spring just enjoys breaking APIs or behavior on patch releases so much. Well, and I have a personal dislike of Java/C++/C# style OO. The temptation…

Clojure has massive amounts of ecosystem and toolchain pain, even though it is a cool language. Most common dev environment for it is a complex emacs tool chain. If you are seeking the simple joys of programming, Clojure is unlikely to be what you want.

Re: Scala isn't fun anymore

#59

Post by billfruit »

jwmcq wrote: post #36
ctrlmeta wrote: post #11

> I’m also having affectionate memories of JavaScript and Python I am afraid, things are equally messy in JavaScript and Python too. "X language isn't fun anymore" is exactly how I feel about X = JavaScript, X = Python, X = C++, X = Java and many other languages. There was a time when I found Python and Js to be very fun languages. But recently the ecosystem has been becoming a mess. Build breakages on dependency upg…

I couldn't tell you exactly why (though I have some ideas), but Lisps seem to settle into amazingly stable languages. Even Clojure, with all its initial trendiness, has been remarkably resistant to bloat and churn. Such things as it's added have largely been either standardisations of things that people were doing anyway, or very natural extensions of ideas that were already there, and it still generally passes the "…

Clojure has massive amounts of ecosystem and toolchain pain, even though it is a cool language. Most common dev environment for it is a complex emacs tool chain. If you are seeking the simple joys of programming, Clojure is unlikely to be what you want.

Re: Scala isn't fun anymore

#60

Post by lupire »

cube2222 wrote: post #30

I think one more problem with Scala, apart from the lack of stability and having to solve the language's problems instead of your application ones, is one of local maxima. Most of the ecosystem uses monads. And the way most projects end up using monads is have "the one monad" that every function returns. ZIO is an example of that. Understandable, since the alternative is to have tons of different function colors. How…

> why not just choose a language where that semantic already is the core semicolon semantic of the language?

The semicolon isn't semantic. A "semicolon" monad is essentially a single global context object. Most languages let anyone anywhere introduce a global context accessible from everywhere else. At least a monad lets you track it all.

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