Live data from Hacker News

Rethinking GPS: Engineering next-gen location at Uber (2018)

uber.com

51–60 of 69 posts

Re: Rethinking GPS: Engineering next-gen location at Uber (2018)

#51

L5 GPS will address the multipath-in-urban-canyon problem that Uber worked on.

Also E5 Galileo [1]. It's such a shame that so few smartphones have support for dual frequency GPS and Galileo.

[1]: https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Galileo_Signal_Plan

Re: Rethinking GPS: Engineering next-gen location at Uber (2018)

#52

L5 GPS will address the multipath-in-urban-canyon problem that Uber worked on.

Also E5 Galileo [1]. It's such a shame that so few smartphones have support for dual frequency GPS and Galileo. [1]: https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Galileo_Signal_Plan

Is it really so few? Snapdragon got support for dual frequency in Snapdragon 855 released in 2018. Use the GPSTest app to see if your phone supports it.

https://github.com/barbeau/gpstest

Re: Rethinking GPS: Engineering next-gen location at Uber (2018)

#54
post #12
post #6

Cool, so it looks like they take the “raw” GPS location (after the GPS module does processing to spit out a lat/long) and applies statistical methods with a model of the actual 3D geometry. Seems like a smart way to improve the accuracy from “userspace”. This reminds me of the Comma.ai project, Laika [0]. Since they have access to the raw GPS module data (Ie the actual timings of each received satellite transmitting)…

You may be interested in knowing that Android has exposed raw GNSS measurements through public APIs [0,1] so anybody can build their own raw processing engines using techniques like the ones described in the article [0] https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/sensors/gnss [1] https://developer.android.com/reference/android/location/Gns...

Is anyone actually doing that? I see a build of RTKLIB but it's not actually using the Android GNSS API, it's just using your Android phone as a processor to handle data coming from an external Ublox receiver. Aww.

Re: Rethinking GPS: Engineering next-gen location at Uber (2018)

#55
This should probably be called "use-specific gps optimization". These are ideas that improve accuracy for specific use cases (cars on roads) but may introduce errors for other users (people in buildings). We see this with googles driver-focused navigation whereby it always pulls you to a road, even though you may be well off the road.

Ive seen this come up in courts. A gps record will say that a person is traveling on highway X instead of parrallel street Y based on speed or direction of travel. When someone is doing something unussual (high speed in wrong direction) mapping software optimizations may go haywire. This is fine, so long as we all understand the difference between the underlying GPS track and a software-optimized track that incorporates logic beyond simple gps position.

Take the unussual situation of a large traffic accident. We dont want the EMT position to be reported as being on the sidewalk just because they are walking. Or after an earthquake. We dont want trapped survivor positions to change based on expected interfearance from tall buildings, buildings which might not be there anymore.

Re: Rethinking GPS: Engineering next-gen location at Uber (2018)

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also E5 Galileo [1]. It's such a shame that so few smartphones have support for dual frequency GPS and Galileo. [1]: https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/Galileo_Signal_Plan

Is it really so few? Snapdragon got support for dual frequency in Snapdragon 855 released in 2018. Use the GPSTest app to see if your phone supports it. https://github.com/barbeau/gpstest

Here are a couple of phones that don't have dual frequency:

- Samsung Galaxy A53 5G (https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_a53_5g-11268.php)

- Samsung Galaxy S10 (https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s10_5g-9588.php)

- Samsung Galaxy S20 (https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s20-10081.php)

- Nokia G60 (https://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_g60-11826.php)

- Google Pixel 5 (https://www.gsmarena.com/google_pixel_5-10386.php)

- Sony Xperia 10 IV (https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_10_iv-11522.php)

- Apple iPhone 13 Pro (https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_13_pro-11102.php)

If you want to have this feature you have to start looking at the high end models which are of course expensive. Last time I've checked only Chinese brands like Huawei, Xiaomi or Realme seem to offer it at a more affordable price range.

Re: Rethinking GPS: Engineering next-gen location at Uber (2018)

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really so few? Snapdragon got support for dual frequency in Snapdragon 855 released in 2018. Use the GPSTest app to see if your phone supports it. https://github.com/barbeau/gpstest

Here are a couple of phones that don't have dual frequency: - Samsung Galaxy A53 5G ( https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_a53_5g-11268.php ) - Samsung Galaxy S10 ( https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s10_5g-9588.php ) - Samsung Galaxy S20 ( https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s20-10081.php ) - Nokia G60 ( https://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_g60-11826.php ) - Google Pixel 5 ( https://www.gsmarena.com/google_pix…

According to this list[0] some Samsung Galaxy S20 does support it, as does the Pixel 5 (and 4 and 6). Google also lists both models as having L5 support[1].

Of course the best way of knowing if your phone supports it is to test it yourself.

[0] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jXtRCoEnnFNWj6_oFlVW...

[1] https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/sensors/gnss.html...

Re: Rethinking GPS: Engineering next-gen location at Uber (2018)

#58
post #35

What happened to the next gen gps technology, I thought it was supposed to be out by now. Centimeter level precision, much better urban (blocked by buildings) accuracy, etc?

What others said + it depends on your location, different GPS satellites serve different continents (usually), so GPS might work better/worse in Europe compared to South Africa (as an example).

Wait, so with the new iphone I will be able to see my location on a map with this accuracy? So basically if a map resolves down to one foot I will have the location pinpointed to a foot from where I am? Currently it’s like 20 feet accuracy.

Re: Rethinking GPS: Engineering next-gen location at Uber (2018)

#59
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What others said + it depends on your location, different GPS satellites serve different continents (usually), so GPS might work better/worse in Europe compared to South Africa (as an example).

Wait, so with the new iphone I will be able to see my location on a map with this accuracy? So basically if a map resolves down to one foot I will have the location pinpointed to a foot from where I am? Currently it’s like 20 feet accuracy.

Yes, GPS already has 1 ft accuracy in good conditions - with L5 GPS this should happen more often.

Re: Rethinking GPS: Engineering next-gen location at Uber (2018)

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a perfect fix though. Even dual band multi network receivers will "jump around" a bit in deep canyons. Example: https://hikingguy.com/hiking-gear/garmin-gpsmap-66sr-review-...

Parent is talking about "urban canyons" which is just fancy wording for cities, while you're talking about actual canyons.

It’s the same problem.
Post reply on HN