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So you want to be a writer?

poets.org

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Re: So you want to be a writer?

#51

Post by agumonkey »

Silverback_VII wrote: post #22
ai_ia wrote: post #20

Bukowski was an eccentric guy and often he used to contradict himself. This poem seems to encompass his life philosophy and which also happens to be written on his tombstone in just two words: "Don't try" However, in his another poem, Roll the Dice, he presents something entirely different outlook on the subject of trying. And this is a poem I really admire. ROLL THE DICE ------------- If you’re going to try, go all…

I like the nietzschean spirit in the poem you posted. I found the following after searching for "don't try" which is also quite nice: "Somebody asked me: "What do you do? How do you write, create?" You don't, I told them. You don't try. That's very important: not to try, either for Cadillacs, creation or immortality. You wait, and if nothing happens, you wait some more. It's like a bug high on the wall. You wait for…

It reminds me of the antique view of genius. Which was something that happened to and through you rather that you.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#52

Post by karmakurtisaani »

JackFr wrote: post #49
bazoom42 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So brave! Seriously, that is basically the brand he built his career on. If you really wanted to be mean, you would say “Bukowski is really a very nice guy, nothing at all like the low-life he writes about”.

It’s not about being mean. It’s the poems. They’re not good poems.

Well, thank you for your input I guess.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#53

Post by badpun »

agumonkey wrote: post #50
badpun wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Second there are times you can't go all in on one shot (lack of resources, risk of death, or simply not knowing which path). You have to chunk your progress. I believe his philosophy was to ignore those issues (lack of resources, risk of death), because if you start thinking about them, you'll never venture out, but instead spend your whole life preparing.

I guess we lost that sense in modern life. But we used to be more acquainted to risks and venture before. Nowadays we can't think about risks precisely because we don't know our limits.

> But we used to be more acquainted to risks and venture before.

I think it was so because the regular life had very little to offer. I mean, I would probably try my luck on a pirate ship, if the alternative was back-breaking work and being hungry half of the time. But nowadays, why take risks, when there's a regular coding job is a sure path to tons of comfort and pleasure?

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#54

Post by mettamage »

ai_ia wrote: post #20

Bukowski was an eccentric guy and often he used to contradict himself. This poem seems to encompass his life philosophy and which also happens to be written on his tombstone in just two words: "Don't try" However, in his another poem, Roll the Dice, he presents something entirely different outlook on the subject of trying. And this is a poem I really admire. ROLL THE DICE ------------- If you’re going to try, go all…

This poem seems to how I currently approach dating. Tinder autoswipe on. Immediate authentic message as to why I like the women I don’t unmatch. Women on the streets, telling them I find them attractive, and if they have time to listen going into detail why. Most of them it makes their day.

I couldn’t care less if I get an infinite amount of rejections. I am not setting for less. I’m too old for that shit and I have seen what it does. If it means I’ll end up alone constantly striking out until I die, then so be it.

I am ready to never experience any form of love and intimacy ever again, and because I am ready for that I feel fearless to go after what I want.

Needless to say, I am not that good looking. I am only living once and realizing it.

Oh, and I am also a feminist, I do everything with consent and apologize for any intrusions. You’d be surprised how polite I am (taking proper distance) despite being direct with my compliments on Tinder/everywhere else.

If you read my comment history, I was in relationships the whole time (single since recently).

Edit: I knew this would get downvotes. Yet, I wrote it anyway, to me this topic matters enough that I don't mind the downvotes. If anything, the downvotes are in spirit of the poem and how I approach this. I'm willing to get hurt a lot more in this area. I'm willing to risk it all. Are you? For the past 10 years, I know I wouldn't.

I know I think differently than some about this. I also know that whenever I get into a conversation with most of you, it seems we're more similar than you'd think. I've had enough of them, a lot of unchecked assumptions are hashed out and it seems in most cases we tend to agree (at least based on the dozens of conversations I've had with people).

To all the downvoters, I'd suggest two things: (1) suggest a better alternative, (2) I'm open to hearing why you think my approach is not a net positive to the world. I think it is: I'm allowing others to meet me as a person. I don't see what's wrong with that. You downvoted, so clearly you think it's a net negative. I'm open to a good faith based discussion on it.

I'm always open to learning.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#55

Post by calculated »

coldtea wrote: post #26
ai_ia wrote: post #20

Bukowski was an eccentric guy and often he used to contradict himself. This poem seems to encompass his life philosophy and which also happens to be written on his tombstone in just two words: "Don't try" However, in his another poem, Roll the Dice, he presents something entirely different outlook on the subject of trying. And this is a poem I really admire. ROLL THE DICE ------------- If you’re going to try, go all…

> However, in his another poem, Roll the Dice, he presents something entirely different outlook on the subject of trying. Is it a different outlook? I think the "don't try" in the gravestone you mention refers to the same concept, or as Yoda put it "Do or Do not. Do not try". "Don't try" to me reads not like "Don't do anything daring" (avoid trying stuff) but instead "Do things fully, don't just dip your toes in" (co…

Yes, by Don't try he means don't try, but if you do give it absolutely everything you have.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#56

Post by idiotsecant »

badpun wrote: post #40
agumonkey wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's often a leap of faith in important matters. I believe both his views don't try or all the way are trying to convey that. Basically don't waste time going mild. But truth is, he's not telling the whole story. First full throttle may make you blind. Second there are times you can't go all in on one shot (lack of resources, risk of death, or simply not knowing which path). You have to chunk your progress. Still…

> Second there are times you can't go all in on one shot (lack of resources, risk of death, or simply not knowing which path). You have to chunk your progress. I believe his philosophy was to ignore those issues (lack of resources, risk of death), because if you start thinking about them, you'll never venture out, but instead spend your whole life preparing.

I mean, flowery language aside clearly there are plenty of circumstances when ignoring constraints and doggedly pursuing your goals will definitely lead to failure. We don't live in a universe where willing something makes it so, no matter how bad we want it. To achieve things we must have a healthy mix of modeling our external universe and and basing our decisions on that vs. ignoring that internal modeling process and just giving it a go.

But none of that fits in a poem, so I get it.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#57

Post by lelag »

coldtea wrote: post #46
lelag wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought I heard that line of thinking from somewhere. > "No. Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try" Master Yoda in The Empire Strikes Back.

Yoda also referenced by name in my comment :)

I appear to have glanced over it too fast...

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#58

Post by bazoom42 »

JackFr wrote: post #49
bazoom42 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So brave! Seriously, that is basically the brand he built his career on. If you really wanted to be mean, you would say “Bukowski is really a very nice guy, nothing at all like the low-life he writes about”.

It’s not about being mean. It’s the poems. They’re not good poems.

Thank you for your insight. Definitely made me reevaluate my opinions.

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#59

Post by Quindecillion »

ai_ia wrote: post #20

Bukowski was an eccentric guy and often he used to contradict himself. This poem seems to encompass his life philosophy and which also happens to be written on his tombstone in just two words: "Don't try" However, in his another poem, Roll the Dice, he presents something entirely different outlook on the subject of trying. And this is a poem I really admire. ROLL THE DICE ------------- If you’re going to try, go all…

"Do or do not. There is no try."

Re: So you want to be a writer?

#60

Post by hnfong »

mhaberl wrote: post #48
goto11 wrote: post #14

Apparently Douglas Adams found it very difficult to write. According to the biography by Neil Gaiman it was almost painful for him, every book or manuscript a chore. I'm happy he didn't follow the advice from Bukowski to just give up! Bukowskis poem seem to represent the romantic idea that art is divinely inspired and the artist is just a vessel. Maybe it really felt like that for Bokowski, while for others writing i…

> romantic idea that art is divinely inspired I certainly believe that is true. When I do my best work (programming, not poetry) I feel like I was inspired. I always get inspired in the same way, by doing the hard work for as long as it takes, and that usually feels like torture. Perhaps Adams and Bukowski use a simmilar method to each other, but is just presented differently. > Charles Bukowski: > if you have to sit…

I read recently about how tribal people dance until total exhaustion, after which they enter a trance and see visions.

Then recently I sharpened my knife for 2 hours straight, and somehow managed to write something that seemed to be relatively divinely inspired (compared to my usual crap).

There might be a pattern where some kind of physical/mental exhaustion would induce the people into a trance like state under which inspired worked could be “channeled” through.

I use these mystical terms somewhat loosely, but I would say that after an actual channeling experience (not very successful but one nonetheless) the act of writing feels weirdly similar to the point that I suspect they could share some similar processes underneath.

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