Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

My family’s unlikely homeschooling journey

fast.ai

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 108 posts

Re: My family’s unlikely homeschooling journey

#51

Post by chongli »

koonsolo wrote: post #39
ido wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not about the cognitive elite. The mass-education public school system is designed for an average with very little deviation that doesn’t actually fit that many pupils - it’s not a single int stat like in d&d, kids have different capabilities & interests and aiming for some sort of generalized lowest common denominator is going to be a bad experience for pretty much everyone. The only solution IMO is the expensi…

There is another way, and I know they sometimes use it in Belgium: let the smarter kids help out the ones that still struggle with the material. That way they learn how to properly explain things, teach others. Maybe they don't see more material than the other kids, but they sure learn other usefull skills.

That’s not great. The smartest kids could be learning calculus in elementary school. Having them teach arithmetic to their struggling peers is just going to add frustration onto boredom.

It also turns out that the smartest kids don’t even need that much attention. They just need access to resources and challenging material and a supervisor to help them set and achieve goals. It really doesn’t cost much to society to provide gifted kids with what they need and at the same time free teachers up to spend more time with those who need it.

I think we all know the main reason we as a society don’t fund gifted and talented education: spite. Parents of average kids hold a special animosity toward gifted kids for no other reason than envy. They would be far better off finding ways to get the most problematic and disruptive kids out of their children’s classrooms but that doesn’t satisfy people the way seeing a gifted program close does.

Re: My family’s unlikely homeschooling journey

#52

Post by 8f2ab37a-ed6c »

chongli wrote: post #51
koonsolo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is another way, and I know they sometimes use it in Belgium: let the smarter kids help out the ones that still struggle with the material. That way they learn how to properly explain things, teach others. Maybe they don't see more material than the other kids, but they sure learn other usefull skills.

That’s not great. The smartest kids could be learning calculus in elementary school. Having them teach arithmetic to their struggling peers is just going to add frustration onto boredom. It also turns out that the smartest kids don’t even need that much attention. They just need access to resources and challenging material and a supervisor to help them set and achieve goals. It really doesn’t cost much to society to…

I'm guessing there's a big ick factor to separating kids into "smarter" and "not that smart" groups. It feels inequitable, undemocratic, it goes against the commonly accepted blank slate hypothesis. People will say that if kids show different outcomes, the teachers just haven't tried hard enough, or that the state hasn't spent enough on them.

Re: My family’s unlikely homeschooling journey

#53

Post by igorkraw »

chongli wrote: post #51
koonsolo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is another way, and I know they sometimes use it in Belgium: let the smarter kids help out the ones that still struggle with the material. That way they learn how to properly explain things, teach others. Maybe they don't see more material than the other kids, but they sure learn other usefull skills.

That’s not great. The smartest kids could be learning calculus in elementary school. Having them teach arithmetic to their struggling peers is just going to add frustration onto boredom. It also turns out that the smartest kids don’t even need that much attention. They just need access to resources and challenging material and a supervisor to help them set and achieve goals. It really doesn’t cost much to society to…

This "envy" story is complete BS. Why should we, as a society, especially help the most privileged and gifted people even more? It's not envy, it's regression to the mean (everything except societal rules is already going in your favour, how dare it).

I also don't think you appreciate the value of instruction as a learning tool and the skills required to truly teach people - empathy, paying attention to cues to keep an up to date model of the student, language skills, clarity of thought to adapt your explanation on the fly. All of these are real skills, which it is absolutely worth teaching the gifted math prodigy instead of rushing them into research ASAP - they are humans, not theorem-factories.

Re: My family’s unlikely homeschooling journey

#54

Post by jay_kyburz »

ido wrote: post #30
8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #5

Not surprising that the kid of two extremely successful and intelligent parents -- at least technically and academically -- is suffocated by the pacing of public schooling. It's supposed to accommodate the needs of the general population and its standard deviations of nurture and nature. I wonder if this will become a more common pattern for the cognitive elite.

It’s not about the cognitive elite. The mass-education public school system is designed for an average with very little deviation that doesn’t actually fit that many pupils - it’s not a single int stat like in d&d, kids have different capabilities & interests and aiming for some sort of generalized lowest common denominator is going to be a bad experience for pretty much everyone. The only solution IMO is the expensi…

I've said it before, but I think software could do a lot to customize curriculum for students without disrupting the the traditional classroom too much.

The kids could be tested with games, then presented new stuff or roll back to some older stuff based on how well they are progressing.

Re: My family’s unlikely homeschooling journey

#55

Post by chongli »

igorkraw wrote: post #53
chongli wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not great. The smartest kids could be learning calculus in elementary school. Having them teach arithmetic to their struggling peers is just going to add frustration onto boredom. It also turns out that the smartest kids don’t even need that much attention. They just need access to resources and challenging material and a supervisor to help them set and achieve goals. It really doesn’t cost much to society to…

This "envy" story is complete BS. Why should we, as a society, especially help the most privileged and gifted people even more ? It's not envy, it's regression to the mean (everything except societal rules is already going in your favour, how dare it). I also don't think you appreciate the value of instruction as a learning tool and the skills required to truly teach people - empathy, paying attention to cues to keep…

There are plenty of gifted students who are not from economically privileged backgrounds. These are kids who can easily drop out, not just from school but from society as a whole, if they’re not nurtured.

I have first hand experience with this, as a former high school dropout, now close to completing a math degree just before the age of 40. The cost to the school system to keep me engaged rather than bored and ignored would’ve been minuscule compared to all of the lost tax revenue from me staying out of the workforce for over a decade and a half.

None of that has anything to do with forcing gifted kids into math research. And there are a hell of a lot more gifted kids than just the Olympiad gold medallist prodigies. I could’ve learned calculus in elementary school but I am far, far away from someone like Terence Tao.

Re: My family’s unlikely homeschooling journey

#56

Post by renewiltord »

trophycase wrote: post #49
renewiltord wrote: post #6

I learned pretty much everything I know from reading by myself since I lived out in the country. My parents did my homework with their left hand when I was young so I'd have time for more productive pursuits like exploring or reading. Worked pretty well for me. I aced almost every exam in my childhood. And I am quite successful. In many ways, school just slows you down. But I liked my parents' way. That let me go to…

idk where you went to school but the "homework" and worksheets I got before high school I could do with my eyes closed. The teachers would hand it out, I'd complete it in 2 minutes then not worry about it. It never even reached my parents. They had already taught me how to read a clock, how to do multiplication and long division, etc. "Homework" as a concept basically didn't exist for me before AP classes.

Oh my homework was sheets of that stuff. The constraint was writing speed honestly. It would take hours of work just to write it out. I was talking to my parents the other day and they laughed about how many pages of cursive text they had to fill just to let me off the hook. But who knows, maybe you're better than me.

It's definitely one thing I like very much about American education: it appears to be much less mechanical. Though unless you go to magnet schools or specific private schools, the peer group is usually weak.

Re: My family’s unlikely homeschooling journey

#57

Post by As_You_Wish »

With everything about what I've been reading about public schools recently, no way in heck would I want my child in a public school, where instead of teaching the basics, they are more about indoctrinating children into a specific political worldview.

I'm neither liberal or conservative, I'm neither. But from what I'm reading, the agenda at public schools is about as hard left, left of left-left-left, as possible. I don't want my children to be indoctrinated to the left or right. I wouldn't have my kids go to a public school where they push religion, either.

Both suck.

Just...no thanks.

Re: My family’s unlikely homeschooling journey

#58

Post by xattt »

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #5

Not surprising that the kid of two extremely successful and intelligent parents -- at least technically and academically -- is suffocated by the pacing of public schooling. It's supposed to accommodate the needs of the general population and its standard deviations of nurture and nature. I wonder if this will become a more common pattern for the cognitive elite.

> I wonder if this will become a more common pattern for the cognitive elite.

In Canada, French immersion is an option in public schools starting from kindergarten. Personally, I think it’s a good proxy for sorting classrooms where parents care versus English-only classrooms where the parents seem less involved.

I’ve heard comments from parents who deliberately avoided French immersion for various reasons but these often stemmed from a lack of a growth mindset (it’s confusing for my child, I won’t be able to help them with homework, etc.). This obviously has implications about how kids conduct themselves beyond their home.

Re: My family’s unlikely homeschooling journey

#59

Post by koonsolo »

chongli wrote: post #51
koonsolo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is another way, and I know they sometimes use it in Belgium: let the smarter kids help out the ones that still struggle with the material. That way they learn how to properly explain things, teach others. Maybe they don't see more material than the other kids, but they sure learn other usefull skills.

That’s not great. The smartest kids could be learning calculus in elementary school. Having them teach arithmetic to their struggling peers is just going to add frustration onto boredom. It also turns out that the smartest kids don’t even need that much attention. They just need access to resources and challenging material and a supervisor to help them set and achieve goals. It really doesn’t cost much to society to…

One of my daughters is 8, and she scores very high in school. Relative to my other kids way better at that age, and relative to the other kids in school too.

You might call that gifted.

Surprisingly she is also taller than most kids in her class.

Minor detail that you can totally ignore: she was born 2nd of January.

Re: My family’s unlikely homeschooling journey

#60

Post by koonsolo »

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #52
chongli wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not great. The smartest kids could be learning calculus in elementary school. Having them teach arithmetic to their struggling peers is just going to add frustration onto boredom. It also turns out that the smartest kids don’t even need that much attention. They just need access to resources and challenging material and a supervisor to help them set and achieve goals. It really doesn’t cost much to society to…

I'm guessing there's a big ick factor to separating kids into "smarter" and "not that smart" groups. It feels inequitable, undemocratic, it goes against the commonly accepted blank slate hypothesis. People will say that if kids show different outcomes, the teachers just haven't tried hard enough, or that the state hasn't spent enough on them.

I'm willing to bet most gifted kids are born in the first half of the year, and most not so smart ones in the second half.

Same in sports by the way: most "gifted" players are born at the start of the year: https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh...

Conclusion: at young ages, you should be very careful what you call "gifted" when you place kids with almost 1 year difference in the same group.

Post reply on HN