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Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

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Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#51

Post by cfcosta »

dale_glass wrote: post #43
tony-allan wrote: post #4

I'm very glad Kiwi Farms is gone. But as a thought experiment, would an IPFS based distributed website survive attacks of this nature? It could be pinned by individual users and gateways and accessed using browser plug-ins. [1] https://ipfs.tech/

I don't think a forum is possible on IPFS? To my knowledge, it's content addressable, and therefore limited to static content, because if the content of a file change, the URL to it changes.

You can keep the assets/media to IPFS and use a small server to host everything else? With proper archival, seems doable in a scalable way.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#52

Post by nemo44x »

fullstop wrote: post #42
nemo44x wrote: post #28

Real principled stance there from their CEO - 3 days to totally flip-flop? I mean, if your stance is we will ban content we arbitrarily find bad then just state it as such. Put into your agreement terms precisely what is and isn’t allowed. Be consistent. This “conflicted” act makes them look weak and of questionable leadership. Either take a principled stance on speech or put into your terms how you censor speech.

Kevin has been hammering on them for many days now, and for good reason. Everyone has a different line in the sand. For me, a platform designed to promote hate speech crosses that line.

What is hate speech? Was Charlie Hebdo hate speech? Rushdie? A lot of people certainly think so. I see hate speech across nearly every internet platform including this one. There’s no shortage of hate speech against wealthy people or white men, etc. Is that allowed?

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#53

Post by worldofmatthew »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #45

The thing is, it's hard to feel bad for kiwifarms. They seem to be one of the worst sites there are. But freedom of speech/expression/opinions aren't about defending those who speech/expression/opinions you like but all of them. Personally, I think the site being shutdown is a good thing. But it's hard to look at the fact a few corporations can remove a website from the internet and think this is good for a free and…

Kiwifarms is a downgrade from the others aka its already a slippery slope. Cloudflare and DDOS-Guard are known to protect booters.

So, they can in effect decide who is allowed online and who will be DDOS'ed offline by services protected by them.

The more website use them, the more power they have to abuse and they are already going down the slippery slope..... Soon even countries will have to decide if Cloudflare and DDOS-Guard are national security risks for protecting the DDOS-for-Hire industry that helps fund botnets (The resources for that industry provides would likely have helped Russia in their DDOS attacks against Ukraine) and if arrest warrents needs to be issued for their leadership.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#54

Post by dale_glass »

cfcosta wrote: post #51
dale_glass wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think a forum is possible on IPFS? To my knowledge, it's content addressable, and therefore limited to static content, because if the content of a file change, the URL to it changes.

You can keep the assets/media to IPFS and use a small server to host everything else? With proper archival, seems doable in a scalable way.

But that server has to be on the open internet, and can be trivially attacked.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#55

Post by concordDance »

Borgz wrote: post #32
tomohawk wrote: post #23

Quoted post unavailable.

Maybe if they decide to become platforms exclusively dedicated to harrassment, stop prohibiting and removing that type of content, and actively encourage it. Until then, it doesn't seem likely.

Have you actually browsed them? When this thing hit the front page of HN I checked it out and while they say a lot of nasty stuff about people there I couldn't find an occurrence of organising online or offline harassment.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#56

Post by flumpcakes »

I personally have never seen any content on Kiwifarms that would lead to statements as we saw the other day from Cloudflare. It is a place where people say some horrible stuff, but I think 4chan is worse (including CSAM) and they are protected by Cloudflare as far as I know.

I don't know much about the people who post there, other than that they say some nasty things. I have also seen such content on Facebook and Twitter - nastier content, in greater volume, with a larger audience.

I have found comments about people on kiwifarms that have been moderated out of other sites (not death threats or harassment, but factual information), in that regard it has been somewhat useful.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#57

Post by nemo44x »

bouncing wrote: post #49
nemo44x wrote: post #28

Real principled stance there from their CEO - 3 days to totally flip-flop? I mean, if your stance is we will ban content we arbitrarily find bad then just state it as such. Put into your agreement terms precisely what is and isn’t allowed. Be consistent. This “conflicted” act makes them look weak and of questionable leadership. Either take a principled stance on speech or put into your terms how you censor speech.

There's always going to be something of a judgment call though. You might say "this content is against our TOS", but what if that content is in a book? At a bookseller? You can think of many other examples, but the point is, if you think there's an easy-to-create and easy-to-enforce content policy on the Internet, I think you're mistaken.

Of course and it’s a bit of a trap. They’d end up having to ban half the internet if they were consistent and non-arbitrary.

Re: Kiwi Farms is down across all domains as DDoS-Guard terminates service

#60

Post by pjc50 »

_dain_ wrote: post #48
Y-bar wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hosting providers MUST be forced to provide a platform for everyone and anyone against the will of the provider. It SHALL NOT matter how many people their customers brag about driving to suicide. Nor should the hosting provider take into consideration harassment campaigns orchestrated by users of their platforms. -- Stallman, probably? /endsarcasm

Quoted post unavailable.

As people say in the free speech issue: if it's illegal - if you've got actual evidence - report it to the police. Plenty of KF users have been in contact with the police .. making bogus reports.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/psn...

In a statement to The Sunday Times, the PSNI said they received a report of an incident last Tuesday.

“Officers attended the scene but found nothing ongoing on their arrival. Inquiries are continuing surrounding the incident which is being treated as hate-motivated at this time,” a PSNI spokesperson added.

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