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Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

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Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#51

Post by just-ok »

sudden_dystopia wrote: post #38

They aren’t just going to give you a free day off. There would be a commensurate decrease in your pay. I don’t find the 5 days/week to be “irrational”, “irrational” to whom? It’s completely rational from an employers perspective that they have a job to fulfill and it requires employees to complete the job. If they have people working 4 days /week, they need coverage for the other days. It’s not rational for the custo…

The OP notes they’re referring explicitly to jobs with a 5 day work week, so your comments re: service industry, etc. are valid, they’re already excluded.

Irrational might not be the right word; arbitrary is pretty accurate, though. If productivity and output change minimally, why should expectations or pay? Let’s be honest, the typical 5-day office job work week the OP is referencing has a LOT of downtime.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#52

Post by thombat »

sudden_dystopia wrote: post #38

They aren’t just going to give you a free day off. There would be a commensurate decrease in your pay. I don’t find the 5 days/week to be “irrational”, “irrational” to whom? It’s completely rational from an employers perspective that they have a job to fulfill and it requires employees to complete the job. If they have people working 4 days /week, they need coverage for the other days. It’s not rational for the custo…

Many customer-facing occupations provide for extended opening hours, Saturdays and even Sundays. Personally I'd be thrilled if half the organizations I deal with went beyond Mon-Fri 9-5, and to do so they'll need some extra staff.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#53

Post by slively »

pwinnski wrote: post #44
panzagl wrote: post #40

What I want to know is how 'salaried' turned into ">=40 hours a week"

It was the other way around. Works weeks were 48 hours or more until Henry Ford enacted a five-day 40-hour week in his factory in 1926[0]. Later, in 1939, laws were passed that officially established the new only-40-hour week as the norm, with 32 hours as the official mark of full- vs part-time, and anything over 40 being deemed "overtime." At least in the United States, that's the trend. 0. https://www.truthorfictio…

Attributing the 5 day work week to Henry Ford is not placing the credit correctly. He may have been the first big CEO, but it was the work of labor rights activists and unions. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/sep/09/viral-imag...

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#54

Post by ratherbefuddled »

We went from 5x7.5 to 4x8 without reducing pay. 4 months into it and so far it's working on all fronts. No loss of momentum or productivity, no reduction in client billing, happier and more effective people.

We had to get much smarter about how to organise time, work asynchronously and write things down to a better level - but it is the way forward make no mistake.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#55

Post by mkl95 »

My country has plenty of companies that offer 2 1/2 day weekends ON PAPER. The reality is that unpaid overtime is endemic here and you are likely to work as much there as you would at a place with a regular workweek. I don't want a 4 day workweek where I'm working dozens of hours for free every month. I'd rather see the government use their absurdly high taxes to chase those companies. We can think of a 4 day workweek after that's fixed.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#57

Post by t0mas88 »

sokoloff wrote: post #11

In some places in Europe, after some period of employment, you can demand of your employer to let you work 80% of hours for 80% of pay. I have team members in Europe on this schedule and it works out well for everyone. Based on that experience, I'd also be open to such an arrangement for employees based in geographies where that's not legally required, but is legally and practically permitted. My guess is that most p…

It's not a legal right in my part of Europe but it's super common here for couples that both work and have young kids. The kids go to daycare 3 days per week and each parent takes a day off to cover the rest.

Having done that now for a while, I would probably keep my 4 days even when the kids get older and aren't at home.

The total output in knowledge work doesn't decrease much (if at all) working 4 instead of 5 days. It's much more about what you output then about how much time you spend on it. And working less hours for me meant being more focused in those hours. My targets and bonus remained the same.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#58

Post by happyopossum »

seibelj wrote: post #4

I work 70 hours a week. Surely you wouldn’t outlaw my ethic? And if a run a company, surely I could require my employees to work 5 days, 40 hours? The solution is to let business owners switch to 4 day weeks and then let the free market sort it out.

> The solution is to let business owners switch to 4 day weeks and then let the free market sort it out.

We do "let" business owners switch to 4 day weeks, most don't. The free market has sorted it out.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#59

Post by jrochkind1 »

I've been working a 4-day work week for 80% of what would otherwise be my salary for much of my career, through several different jobs.

With different ways of it coming about, sometimes I start the job like that, sometimes I negotiate into it after being there a bit. The first time it happened it was what my employer actually wanted... but now I love it and it would be hard to go back.

I wish more employers were open to it.

I realize not everyone has the luxury to take 80% of the salary they _could_ be making, and still take care of what they consider necessary expenses... but a lot of software engineers do.

At this point I don't understand how anyone has the "luxury" to work 5 days a week and still have enough time to take care of what needs taking care of without going insane!

I am fully confident I am a more "efficient" worker at 4 days than 5, I get done probably 95% of what I would at full time, for 80% of the salary. It's actually a great deal for the employer. I wish employers were universally open to it.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't we have 3 day weekends yet?

#60

Post by gmac »

If we take this over a longer timeframe (as in Keynes' famous prediction, say), then one reason may be: we do actually have a lot more leisure than we did a century ago, but we've largely "chosen" to take it as a lengthier retirement instead of a shorter working week. See: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ecca.12439
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