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“Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

nature.com

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Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#51

Post by mgoldstein5 »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #11
tarakat wrote: post #6

Yet, people can be harmed indirectly. For example, research may — inadvertently — stigmatize individuals or human groups. It may be discriminatory, racist, sexist, ableist or homophobic. It may provide justification for undermining the human rights of specific groups, simply because of their social characteristics. [..] Advancing knowledge and understanding is a fundamental public good. In some cases, however, potent…

Well connected - and I think this comparison is becoming more apt each passing day. These statements and policies are just so… egotistical … for lack of a better word. What happens when we stop agreeing on what the “good” is? How can you claim to respect all humans when you don’t respect the human cognitive ability to disagree? Thanks for posting.

No post body was provided.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#52

Post by bjt2n3904 »

tarakat wrote: post #6

Yet, people can be harmed indirectly. For example, research may — inadvertently — stigmatize individuals or human groups. It may be discriminatory, racist, sexist, ableist or homophobic. It may provide justification for undermining the human rights of specific groups, simply because of their social characteristics. [..] Advancing knowledge and understanding is a fundamental public good. In some cases, however, potent…

Science must always report the truth. What was the old saying? "That which can be destroyed by truth, should be"?

Whenever science attempts to prop up political regimes by obscuring the truth, then tragedy and travesty occurs.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#53

Post by JamesBarney »

This would not only destroys woke research but pro-woke as well because if you are guaranteeing publication bias you can't trust the research either way.

This is also a boon to racists who never have to defend themselves against science again.

"Yeah that study shows that Hispanic immigrants don't commit more crimes, but it's against the rules to publish anything else"

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#55

Post by Enginerrrd »

dcow wrote: post #27
tarakat wrote: post #6

Yet, people can be harmed indirectly. For example, research may — inadvertently — stigmatize individuals or human groups. It may be discriminatory, racist, sexist, ableist or homophobic. It may provide justification for undermining the human rights of specific groups, simply because of their social characteristics. [..] Advancing knowledge and understanding is a fundamental public good. In some cases, however, potent…

Moreover, how can any of these be enforced, and by whom? At least you know who your church authority figures are and who to criticize. Where do we even start if we let Twitter outrage decide whether science is potentially harmful and should be allowed or not? This is worse than religion because it’s pretending to be rational. And many many people will be fooled.

>This is worse than religion because it’s pretending to be rational. And many many people will be fooled.

I hate to make the comparison because it's such a trope, but, IMO this is one of the most insidious things the Nazis did to indoctrinate the population:

They did things like send people into schools and they would cherry-pick the weakest, least intelligent, least-liked Jewish kid they could find and set him alongside the most athletic, attractive, smart, well-liked Aryan looking kid.

They'd bring them both up in front of the class and from that point on, they'd use "scientific" discussion and observation of their qualities to convince the kids that the Aryan kids were superior in every way. I'll tell you what, I was a pretty savy independent thinker and empathetic kid, but I really think I might have fallen for that type of technique, masquerading as science.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#56

Post by FollowingTheDao »

implements wrote: post #38
FollowingTheDao wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do these people think there are motherfucking X-Men living among us In fact, there are. You know, we all have genetic differences, and most studies do not account for these genetic differences. So a medicine that helps one person might cause drug induced Lupus in another. Lithium is a good example of this stigma. I have Schizoaffective Bipolar Disorder and Lithium is constantly forces on me even though it does not…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbamazepine can be effective for those for whom Lithium is ineffective or causes adverse reactions.

Yes, been there. It gave me lupus symptoms. I have much better luck eating only seafood and no plant oils. These omega 3's inhibit these sodium channels as well as the calcium channels implicated in mood disorders.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20167245/

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#57

Post by savant_penguin »

"In some cases, however, potential harms to the populations studied may outweigh the benefit of publication."

I'm sure our demigods will gladly enlighten us with their wisdom to distinguish between misthoughts and correct thoughts.

So that when journalists claim to be following the science there will be no dissenting voice in research to disagree.

Those who defend opposing ideas will have no leg to stand on and will rightfully be labeled science deniers

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#59

Post by buscoquadnary »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #39
effingwewt wrote: post #3

Science must only be objective. Science should not care one whit about humans or what we want/think/feel. We should respect people, there's a huge difference. As far as I'm concerned, this is the final nail in the coffin for nature magazine or whatever they call themselves now. This entire blog post is them contradicting themselves repeatedly.

Science is only objective. But scientists are subjective and biased. The paper is not speaking about how people feel, they are speaking on the subjectiveness of scientists leading to the harm of minority people. What do you think happened in Nazi Germany?

Politicians and populists pushed out false information, and then squashed anyone that tried to argue against the state as "radical", "harmful" and "against progress and science" at the point of a gun, refused to let people ask questions or have dissenting views which led them to the next step of being allowed to exterminate undesirables because no one was allowed to argue because "The Science was settled"

We could of course also talk about how the centralized control of the science of genetics in the Soviet Union led to mass famines that killed millions and anyone who disagreed was put to death.

It seems to me the problem isn't and never has been science, it is when a single institution, society, or government gets to dictate what "truth" is and "the science is settled" at the point of a gun, not that science gives us answers we don't like.

Re: “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans”

#60

Post by red75prime »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #44
NotYourLawyer wrote: post #20

No, science must pursue the truth, no matter where it leads. There is no such thing as a hate fact.

[flagged]

The proposed medication is worse than the disease. Fight fascism/racism/whatever with state supported lies (of omission). What could go wrong?
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