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Remote startups will win the war for top talent

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Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#51
post #18

That might be true, but this is probably the beginning of sharply declining developer salaries. If you're going remote, a developer in California is going to be competing with devleopers in Kansas, not to mention overseas. The era of people fresh out of a developer bootcamp getting six figure salaries is all but done.

My company pays SF-payscale salaries no matter where the employee lives. That's how we attract and retain the best talent.

May I dare to ask how profitable your company is at the moment and how sustainable their business model is ? I hope we are not talking some of those NFT thingy where money apparently appears out of thin air and disappears as quickly as it showed up.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#52

I never really understood why people say productivity and socializing is difficult remote. It's difficult because people aren't putting thought into it. At my last big-co job the leadership just kept waiting for 'covid to be over' and not improving our remote work culture. Hybrid models will always struggle and 1/3/1 is going to be probably the best you can do. My company is fully remote, we embraced the GitLab model…

I sort of agree. We (small startup) went fully remote with COVID and remain so. Work communication is fine, but socializing doesn't happen the way it did at the office. It works okay because most of us had already been working together at the office, but it's harder for new hires, and especially for young junior-level engineers without much experience (i.e., fresh out of college). Hasn't worked well for interns either. But for older, experienced, workers who are able to communicate effectively online and would much rather not be bothered to go into an office, it works well.

We haven't tried hybrid but I don't really see the benefits of it. One big advantage of remote is being able to hire people in other locations. The only way I could see hybrid being useful would be to provide a work space for people who want to work away from home (i.e., for variety or because their house isn't conducive to it), and let those who prefer to work from home (i.e., parents with young kids who need a more flex schedule) do so without set office day requirements (or very few).

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#53

I never really understood why people say productivity and socializing is difficult remote. It's difficult because people aren't putting thought into it. At my last big-co job the leadership just kept waiting for 'covid to be over' and not improving our remote work culture. Hybrid models will always struggle and 1/3/1 is going to be probably the best you can do. My company is fully remote, we embraced the GitLab model…

> Meanwhile we have had no problem sourcing candidates since we can pull from anywhere in the world, we have some incredible people all over the world that we would not have gotten otherwise.

How do you handle taxes ?

For example in Europe a German company can't hire a French dev if the german company doesn't have a legal entity in France, it quickly gets out of control both in term of paperwork and cost. The dev can't be a freelancer because a freelancer with a full time, fixed hours, single customer is illegal in many places

Also let's say you have an American company with 200 german employees but no office on german soil, does that mean they don't pay any local tax because technically they don't operate their business in the country ?

I feel like a lot of loopholes which were seldom used will promptly be closed once they become widely used

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#54

That might be true, but this is probably the beginning of sharply declining developer salaries. If you're going remote, a developer in California is going to be competing with devleopers in Kansas, not to mention overseas. The era of people fresh out of a developer bootcamp getting six figure salaries is all but done.

this is probably the beginning of sharply declining developer salaries

That might well be true for FAANG-sized companies. Those businesses will pay start to pay less if they start embracing remote working (although right now they seem to be pushing for people to return to the office). It is not true for the rest of the IT world though. When developers can get remote jobs they're free to work for the highest paying company rather than whatever local IT industry there is. That pushes wages up if you're in Bumsville Idaho. Not to six-figures-for-a-junior levels, sure, but far more than you could earn before.

Overall I strongly suspect remote work will lead to developers earning more over the whole industry even if peak Bay Area wages drop a lot. Sucks if you work in the Bay I guess, and it sucks even more if you're a Bay Area landlord, but for the rest of us it's going to be awesome.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#55
There are so many forces pulling in so many directions. The world is being re-shuffled. Ultimately, I don't think it will favor labor at US/FAANG talent prices.

- Young workers typically want to socialize with other young workers

- Older workers prefer to be alone, with family, etc. Have funds for larger homes and at-home amenities

- Nearly everyone hates commutes

- Cities are expensive and small, but exciting. Rural is large, open, inexpensive, but can be socially boring

- Office REITs want a return to the office because that's how they make their income

- Cities want a return to the office to support their tax base and economies

- Offices and cities are a huge tax on companies

- Some managers like to manage in person

- Extroverted roles may tend to prefer in person

- Physical work (hardware), whiteboarding, etc. are harder to do remotely. (Or impossible. You can't passage cell cultures remotely.)

- Much of the time spent in the office is wasted / distracting

- Remote work allows greater flexibility of running errands, doing chores, multi-tasking, childcare, ...

- Workers will tend to choose remote work over onsite work if the pay is the same

- It's expensive to live and work in California, not so much in middle America

- The pool of talent stretches far beyond America. Fungible remote workers means you can pay $50k for someone in another country to do the job of a $300k+ FAANG worker.

From a purely economic perspective, it seems like remote work will win out. But that entails drastic and cascading changes to everything. Labor will move beyond expensive American borders and become much cheaper for companies to hire and replace.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#56
post #18

That might be true, but this is probably the beginning of sharply declining developer salaries. If you're going remote, a developer in California is going to be competing with devleopers in Kansas, not to mention overseas. The era of people fresh out of a developer bootcamp getting six figure salaries is all but done.

My company pays SF-payscale salaries no matter where the employee lives. That's how we attract and retain the best talent.

I'm happy for you. Let's talk right now if you're hiring.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#57

I never really understood why people say productivity and socializing is difficult remote. It's difficult because people aren't putting thought into it. At my last big-co job the leadership just kept waiting for 'covid to be over' and not improving our remote work culture. Hybrid models will always struggle and 1/3/1 is going to be probably the best you can do. My company is fully remote, we embraced the GitLab model…

Are you hiring? :)

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#58
post #22

Okay, how about a tad more nuance though. The better headline would be "Remote Startups will win the war for top talent among employees who prefer to work remotely" Not quite so sexy. Sure some; probably even most software devs prefer remote/hybrid work, but there are still plenty of incredibly talented people out there who prefer being in the office every day.

I worked for 2 years in Silicon Valley with a WFH policy that I used maybe 2 days total (once for a package and the other for apartment maintenance). If you live close to work commuting isn't so bad. I need physical space in my life. Ideally every day of the week would have a commute to a different location.

> If you live close to work commuting isn't so bad

This, I work from home when the weather is bad, otherwise it's a 10 minute bike ride, which is actually quite enjoyable when the weather is good and a nice way to compartmentalise the day (+ using my legs isn't a bad thing either)

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#59

I never really understood why people say productivity and socializing is difficult remote. It's difficult because people aren't putting thought into it. At my last big-co job the leadership just kept waiting for 'covid to be over' and not improving our remote work culture. Hybrid models will always struggle and 1/3/1 is going to be probably the best you can do. My company is fully remote, we embraced the GitLab model…

Communications and collaboration is very important. However, "socializing" through Slack is simply just not the same as going out to lunch with a coworker, for example. Permanent remote work has a very detached feel to it, at least for me.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#60
post #53

I never really understood why people say productivity and socializing is difficult remote. It's difficult because people aren't putting thought into it. At my last big-co job the leadership just kept waiting for 'covid to be over' and not improving our remote work culture. Hybrid models will always struggle and 1/3/1 is going to be probably the best you can do. My company is fully remote, we embraced the GitLab model…

> Meanwhile we have had no problem sourcing candidates since we can pull from anywhere in the world, we have some incredible people all over the world that we would not have gotten otherwise. How do you handle taxes ? For example in Europe a German company can't hire a French dev if the german company doesn't have a legal entity in France, it quickly gets out of control both in term of paperwork and cost. The dev can…

We use a service called Deel, but we are US entity and that helps in many cases.

Essentially they have companies in most countries and you pay them (deel) directly and then they payout to your staff. This also simplifies benefits for healthcare, taxes, retirement.

If you find it helpful, heres my referral code https://deel.com/referrals/Michael-n53jPEZJ

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