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I hope Apple never adopts RCS

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Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#51

Post by minimaul »

elashri wrote: post #8
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #4

The SMS/RCS/iMessage/blue bubble-green bubble debate is almost entirely exclusive to the strange market of the US. Almost everywhere else in the world, users have simply adopted a variety of 3rd-party messaging apps that use the phone's Internet rather than GSM connection, like WhatsApp, Telegram, Messenger, Signal, WeChat, etc. EDIT: While I understand the need for a 'universal E2EE messaging standard', we don't hav…

Part of reason in for many places outside US. There are no unlimited messages plan. edit: people seems to miss that I said that this is only part of the reason not the reason. I also said many places outside the US (not all). So do people down vote because they think that there are only US and EU in the world? I am missing that point.

FWIW, most monthly contract plans in the UK have unlimited calls & SMS. The main differentiator is the size of the data cap. There are charges for MMS etc though.

Even the cheapest of plans from the main networks (3, vodafone, EE, o2) - as low as £4/mo have unlimited calls & SMS now.

edit: this has been the case for quite a few years now, too.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#52

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

londons_explore wrote: post #37
minimaul wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fragmentation of these third party apps gets frustrating very fast though. I'm in the UK and my work uses Slack and also wants me to use WhatsApp for OOH contact. My friends are mostly on Discord. My family is mostly only available via iMessage. A few of the more privacy conscious use Telegram or Signal. A few of the more OSS conscious use Matrix. Some chat is still on IRC (actually I like that...). Users relying…

> forcing these apps to be able to federate I predict it'll 'work' so that the companies aren't fined by the EU, but the service will be atrocious. You'll probably have to jump through a lot of hoops to make it work, and even then you'll probably have to wait 5 minutes for messages to be delivered, have to deal with bugs galore, and have most of the features not work. "Warning: Sending an animated emoji will eject al…

> You'll probably have to jump through a lot of hoops to make it work, and even then you'll probably have to wait 5 minutes for messages to be delivered, have to deal with bugs galore, and have most of the features not work.

Traditionally the EU is not amused by companies trying to cleverly work around its competition laws. I fully expect long trials with significant fines following the introduction of this law and hopefully things should settle for the better in a couple of years.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#53

Post by sss111 »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #19
drawfloat wrote: post #11

Still find it incredible the green/blue bubble thing in the US isn’t a joke.

Apparently teens in the US judge each other by the colour of their message bubbles [0]. I don't know if this is merely immaturity, or sheer vapidness. [0]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-apples-imessage-is-winning-... (paywalled)

paywall bypass for chrome & firefox : https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#54

Post by threeseed »

throw0101a wrote: post #49
threeseed wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RCS is a step backward. At least SMS is a standard where as Google has their own proprietary version.

> At least SMS is a standard where as Google has their own proprietary [RCS] version. AFAICT, the only thing "proprietary" about Google's RCS client implementation is E2EE: otherwise it's a fairly standard RCS client that can talk to any other RCS client. I'd be happy if Apple did the same thing with iMessage (app): standard SMS/RCS client when sending to non-iMessage people, and 'fancy' client (blue bubbles) between…

Glad we can agree it's proprietary.

So the question is if Google was willing to deviate from the standard for encryption what else will they do in the future.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#55

Post by jaywalk »

gertrunde wrote: post #44

I'm not sure why this is being framed as an XOR situation? Why would RCS support imply removal of iMessage? Surely RCS raises the lowest common denominator up a bit from SMS, and people are still free to use whatever 3rd party data-based messaging service they want to, be it iMessage, WhatsApp, Signal, Facebook Messenger, or whatever else, even ICQ if that still exists. I don't think I've ever intentionally/deliberat…

I don't think it's being framed as an XOR situation. I think the article is trying to say that RCS is a shit standard (it is) and that Apple shouldn't adopt it because that would essentially solidify it as the replacement for SMS. Apple and Google should come together and make something better.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#56

Post by threeseed »

hpaavola wrote: post #42
threeseed wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RCS is a step backward. At least SMS is a standard where as Google has their own proprietary version.

No it is not. RCS provides valuable features for users which are not present in SMS.

But Google RCS is proprietary.

So then why not use another proprietary client like WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram etc.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#57

Post by jaywalk »

chrismorgan wrote: post #30

> To use iMessage, all you need is an Apple ID, which you can create for free. To use RCS, you need to have a phone number, which means that you need to have an account with a carrier. You also need to have a phone to use RCS: you can't use it on a tablet alone without LTE. I’m under the impression you need Apple hardware to use iMessage, and that even third-party solutions rely upon proxying via real Apple hardware…

Yes, you do need Apple hardware to use iMessage. But as your quote states, there are no other monthly fees associated with it. You don't need a cellular plan, or indeed even a device with cellular connectivity at all. And you can still send/receive iMessages the same as anyone else.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#58

Post by preisschild »

capableweb wrote: post #10
nikanj wrote: post #3

iMessages are tied to Apple serial numbers, making spamming a lot harder. RCS would bring the spam protection to sms levels, i.e. absolutely non-existant

SMS spam can be solved on the operator level instead of forcing devices/software to protect against it. Just because your country has poor telecom operators doesn't mean that applies to the rest of the world. My main phone number is a western Europe number that is added to all my outgoing emails + visible on my public website (and lots of other places) and I almost never receive spam SMSes. Last one was pretty much e…

Funfact: The only spam I got was by my phone operator (Magenta / T-Mobile Austria, the same guys that save passwords in plaintext). Never by someone else though, but im wary where I publish the number.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#59

Post by riggsdk »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #4

The SMS/RCS/iMessage/blue bubble-green bubble debate is almost entirely exclusive to the strange market of the US. Almost everywhere else in the world, users have simply adopted a variety of 3rd-party messaging apps that use the phone's Internet rather than GSM connection, like WhatsApp, Telegram, Messenger, Signal, WeChat, etc. EDIT: While I understand the need for a 'universal E2EE messaging standard', we don't hav…

I get the feeling that it is highly subjective how widely adopted people seem to believe these are. It would be interesting to see some actual research on this. While many may have a whole bunch of those apps installed it says nothing about their actual usage.

My own personal view (Denmark based, age: mid thirties): In my group of extended friends and family almost everyone uses SMS/iMessage. SMS has been (basically) free to use here for many many years (or so many included in your basic plan you would never reach the limit). I believe this has slowed the adoption of the various chat apps here significantly - at least for people my age. Most of my friends share the same habit of calling each other if you want to know something that is time sensitive. If you don't need an answer right away you can text.

New acquaintances are first added on Facebook/Messenger since you can find people by their name and then if you actually communicate with them on a regular basis you eventually get their phone number to make it easier if you for example need to call them. Almost nobody I know use Messenger's voice calls. My family (and some friends) has resorted to sending SnapChat images instead. Sharing something without it ending up in a "permanent" chat history seems to be getting more common as it is somewhat informal. I never watch people's "stories/reels" in whatever format they might take as they are not sent directly to me and they seem to expire after a short while. I hate that pressure to constantly check in not to miss anything so now I ignore it completely and I'm happier for it. If anything I have a lot more to talk about with people when I finally meet them than if I already knew everything they had been doing.

I have a few WhatsApp groups going with my international friends and various local volunteer-based organizations.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#60

Post by hpaavola »

threeseed wrote: post #56
hpaavola wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is not. RCS provides valuable features for users which are not present in SMS.

But Google RCS is proprietary. So then why not use another proprietary client like WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram etc.

Because taking any of those services into use requires you to take those services into use. RCS requires no action from the user. That's why. Before you ask a question, please spend 15 minutes thinking about the answer.
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