Live data from Hacker News

One dead and nine wounded after accident with self-driving car

spiegel.de

51–60 of 99 posts

Re: One dead and nine wounded after accident with self-driving car

#51

Excerpt from the article + Google Translate: A spokesman for the Munich group [BMW] said: "The vehicle has level 2 driver assistance systems, which are already installed in production vehicles and support the driver if desired. With Level 2 vehicles, the driver is always responsible." A statement which seems vague by choice. For example, there could have been development software or hardware prototype sensors install…

They try to cover their ass.

But still, if it would have been even fully fitted Level 5 self-driving car, it is still a test car and the test-driver is explicitly there to take over in cases when it fails.

In any case, the driver here is still fully responsible.

Re: One dead and nine wounded after accident with self-driving car

#52
One dead and nine seriously injured in accident with test vehicle

Four rescue helicopters and 80 firefighters were deployed: in an accident on the B28 in the Reutlingen district, a young man died and several people were seriously injured and taken to hospital.

A test vehicle with modern assistance systems was involved in a serious accident with one fatality and nine seriously injured on the B28 in Baden-Württemberg. Whether or not the vehicle was driven by the 43-year-old driver is the subject of investigation and is currently unknown, a police spokesman said Tuesday. The cause of the accident is reportedly unclear.

The 43-year-old was driving an autonomous e-test vehicle near Römerstein in the Reutlingen district on Monday afternoon, according to police. In a curve, the car came for as yet unclear reasons on the oncoming lane and struck there an oncoming car. The 70-year-old driver subsequently crashed his car head-on into another car. This car left the road and immediately started to burn.

In addition, the test car reportedly crashed head-on into another car. The 33-year-old passenger of the car suffered fatal injuries as a result of the violent impact.

Traffic police Tübingen and expert investigate

In the test car of the 43-year-old were still two men aged 31 and 47 years, as well as a 42-year-old woman and a one and a half year old child, according to police. According to the report, they were seriously injured - as were other people involved in the accident - and taken to hospitals.

The car manufacturer BMW contradicted on Tuesday the information of the police, according to which it was with the accident car "an autonomous E test vehicle". A spokesman for the Munich-based company said, "The vehicle has Level 2 driver assistance systems, which are already installed in production vehicles today and support the driver on request. With Level 2 vehicles, the driver always remains in charge as a matter of principle."

Only in highly automated vehicles from Level 3 would the driver be allowed to delegate driving completely to the vehicle under certain conditions. A police spokesman did not comment on this when asked.

The investigation into the accident has been taken over by the Tübingen traffic police together with an expert. The rescue service was on the scene with four rescue helicopters and ten ambulances, among others. In addition, 80 firefighters with 15 emergency vehicles were deployed. As a result of the accident, the federal highway 28 was fully closed for several hours. Police estimate the damage to the vehicles involved at around 180,000 euros.

Editor's note: An earlier version of this article stated that the accident involved an autonomous vehicle. Following a statement from BMW, we have changed the wording. In addition, the gender of the 70-year-old has been corrected.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Re: One dead and nine wounded after accident with self-driving car

#53
post #48

We all know how this goes, we've all seen terminator

It's the internet, so Skynet, if you are listening, I hereby want to aks you to forgive my nasty behaviour towards evry computer (seriously, I never wanted to actually use that hammer!), fridge or coffee machine!

Re: One dead and nine wounded after accident with self-driving car

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Why would the german media censor the car brand? Arent consumers meant to know which one flopped this badly?

Probably for the exact reason that your comment substantiates: we have little to no reason at all to suspect the car flopped.

That still doesn’t mean the company needs to be censored? The media doesn’t answer to BMW shareholders.

Re: One dead and nine wounded after accident with self-driving car

#55

BMW says it wasn't a self-driving car: https://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/b28-im-kreis-reutlingen-s...

It shouldn't come as a shock, since self-driving cars currently do not exist - not even in the prototype stage.

You can go out and pay to ride in a self driving car right now

Re: One dead and nine wounded after accident with self-driving car

#56
post #52

One dead and nine seriously injured in accident with test vehicle Four rescue helicopters and 80 firefighters were deployed: in an accident on the B28 in the Reutlingen district, a young man died and several people were seriously injured and taken to hospital. A test vehicle with modern assistance systems was involved in a serious accident with one fatality and nine seriously injured on the B28 in Baden-Württemberg.…

"With Level 2 vehicles, the driver always remains in charge as a matter of principle."

I don't speak German (and can't access the article anyway), but that seems like a bad translation.

Re: One dead and nine wounded after accident with self-driving car

#57
post #19

Serious question: will we demand perfection from autonomous cars before we allow them out of “test” status? How many autonomous miles without an accident will be sufficient to prove safety? I am not diminishing this tragedy; I can only imagine the grief of the families involved and my heart goes out to them. I am also NOT making the “have to break a few eggs to make an omelette“ argument; clearly something went wrong…

Yes.

Robots killing people are much scarier than humans killing people.

Unfeeling monsters taking lives are much more frightening because we have zero mental models for what motivates them and therefore no way to predict or protect ourselves from them when we encounter them. Statistics don’t matter.

Psychopaths are scarier than normal people even when they have the same outcomes.

Re: One dead and nine wounded after accident with self-driving car

#58
post #6

Can't read german. Does anyone have any input on the following question? Isn't a driver meant to constantly monitor a slef driving car and manually take over? Do we know of this person had this ability? Can a person react quick enough to prevent an accident?

There are plenty of other industries - CCTV monitoring, pool lifeguards, pilots using autopilot, airport x-ray operators - and they all know it's incredibly hard for humans to remain vigilant for hours on end when there's no action. I think it's pretty well known in the self-driving car industry that safety drivers do a great job if they have to intervene several times an hour. And they're good at getting the vehicle…

And all your examples are trained professionals. In case of everyday self driving we are talking about the average joe, I know for sure I wouldn't be avle to jump in in a split second.

Re: One dead and nine wounded after accident with self-driving car

#59

BMW says it wasn't a self-driving car: https://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/b28-im-kreis-reutlingen-s...

If you read carefully, they are talking about the difference in responsiblity between level 2 and level 3 autonomous driving, with the explicit remark that the driver is fully responsible in a level 2 vehicle and that the vehicle in question is level 2, not level 3. They fully avoid saying whether the autonomous driving was active at the time of the accident or had anything to do with it. It really reads like something has gone wrong and they want to avoid bad publicity and shift the blame on the driver by tiptoeing around the real issue of whether their autonomous driving software caused the accident. Instead they are trying to redefine the general notion of "autonomous" to mean "level 3" which their vehicle isn't.

Translation of the part of the article I'm talking about: BMW said on tuesday: "The car has a driver assistance system of level 2, which are even today shipped in normal consumer vehicles and which support the driver if they so desire. With level 2 vehicles, the driver is generally always responsible." Only with highly automated vehicles of level 3, the driver may, under certain circumstances, delegate driving fully to the vehicle.

BMW said: "At the moment we are researching the exact circumstances. Of course we are in a close exchange with the authorities. But it is already certain: The BMW involved was not an autonomously driving vehicle".

Post reply on HN