School demands search of text messaging, outside of school • Hacker News Board

Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#51

Post by puffoflogic » Sun, Aug 14, 2022, 2:28 AM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #36

djbusby wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents are not reliable. It's an unpleasant experience asking another parent to tell their kid to stop bullying your kid...and then being told "fuck you".

Then it's time to escalate. If the "speaking softly" isn't working, it's time for the stick. My aunt had an exchange student in her care. At some point there was an altercation and a boy at school slapped the (female) exchange student. School didn't want to do anything about it, was hemming and hawing. So my aunt phoned the boys mother and explained the situation - and was met with a "well I can't do anything". My au…

This is not a story I would tell online. When your aunt threatened to go to the police and then failed to follow through, it may have become extortion. You can threaten to sue; you can actually go to the police; you can even tell someone you're going to the police; but what you cannot do is merely threaten to go to the police.

Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#52

Post by josephcsible » Sun, Aug 14, 2022, 2:34 AM UTC

tailrecursion wrote: post #50

josephcsible wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The school would insist that all children's phones are set up this way Unless the school is paying for your kid's phone and plan, they should have exactly zero say in how it's set up.

The child's phone can be set up one way or another. In this hypothetical scheme (described above), a child complaining about anonymous abusive messages is ignored by the school. School's not responsible, because the child's phone is set up improperly. If phone were in order, phone would not receive anonymous messages. A child receiving a traceable abusive message is quickly resolved, and presumably this kind of abuse…

> a child complaining about anonymous abusive messages is ignored by the school. School's not responsible, because the child's phone is set up improperly.

Imagine if the police requested, but technically didn't mandate, that parents install location tracking apps on their children's phones, and that they then ignored missing persons reports for anyone who didn't do so.

Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#53

Post by tomrod » Sun, Aug 14, 2022, 2:37 AM UTC

puffoflogic wrote: post #51

vorpalhex wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it's time to escalate. If the "speaking softly" isn't working, it's time for the stick. My aunt had an exchange student in her care. At some point there was an altercation and a boy at school slapped the (female) exchange student. School didn't want to do anything about it, was hemming and hawing. So my aunt phoned the boys mother and explained the situation - and was met with a "well I can't do anything". My au…

This is not a story I would tell online. When your aunt threatened to go to the police and then failed to follow through, it may have become extortion. You can threaten to sue; you can actually go to the police; you can even tell someone you're going to the police; but what you cannot do is merely threaten to go to the police.

Extortion: the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

If I squint my eyes I can sort of see what you're getting at. But on the flip side, this aunt also called the parent to make sure their duty was done. So it would be hard to claim "discipline your child, please, else I will need to file a police report to stop your child's harassment" is extortion.

Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#54

Post by tomrod » Sun, Aug 14, 2022, 2:38 AM UTC

clcaev wrote: post #46

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's an unpleasant experience asking another parent to tell their kid to stop bullying your kid...and then being told "fuck you" Then police.

> Then the police. In some regions, this is a bit unrealistic. I grew up in a neighborhood where the bully's dad was the police captain. The bully would target brown kids and property of their parents (e.g. M80 down the chimney, among other atrocities). Everyone in town new the son acted with impunity. Kids our age knew it was worse: the dad actively encouraged his son, and gave him the M80s. No one would talk about…

Everyone is accountable to someone. Escalate where needed.

Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#55

Post by Waterluvian » Sun, Aug 14, 2022, 2:43 AM UTC

naet wrote: post #30

Someone1234 wrote: post #16

Let me provide a common hypothetical: - A student is being bullied. This bullying is happening using social media and or text messages. These messages are being sent at various times pseudo-anonymously but there's strong reason to know who it is. Who, exactly, is the authority who we expect to look into this? Is it the police? Using what law/powers? Are social workers empowered? We're clearly not ok with the school d…

There was a court case that a family member of mine was involved in as a legal assistant, where a local high school found out a group of three kids had been operating an inappropriate instagram account targeting other students (all black) with things like photoshopped nooses around their necks, photoshopping pictures of the students into monkeys, and lots of horrible comments etc. Obviously this made the targeted stu…

Good point. It’s indeed weird that there’s some delineation line between your school permanent record and your life permanent record.

Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#56

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Aug 14, 2022, 2:44 AM UTC

clcaev wrote: post #46

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's an unpleasant experience asking another parent to tell their kid to stop bullying your kid...and then being told "fuck you" Then police.

> Then the police. In some regions, this is a bit unrealistic. I grew up in a neighborhood where the bully's dad was the police captain. The bully would target brown kids and property of their parents (e.g. M80 down the chimney, among other atrocities). Everyone in town new the son acted with impunity. Kids our age knew it was worse: the dad actively encouraged his son, and gave him the M80s. No one would talk about…

[deleted]

Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#57

Post by mlyle » Sun, Aug 14, 2022, 2:45 AM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #54

clcaev wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then the police. In some regions, this is a bit unrealistic. I grew up in a neighborhood where the bully's dad was the police captain. The bully would target brown kids and property of their parents (e.g. M80 down the chimney, among other atrocities). Everyone in town new the son acted with impunity. Kids our age knew it was worse: the dad actively encouraged his son, and gave him the M80s. No one would talk about…

Everyone is accountable to someone. Escalate where needed.

> > I grew up in a neighborhood where the bully's dad was the police captain.

> Everyone is accountable to someone. Escalate where needed.

Frankly, this isn't really true-- and shows our immense privilege that we can often act with this assumption and have it come true. Most people don't have this experience.

And especially a couple decades ago this was much less true for the type of circumstances we're discussing.

Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#58

Post by tailrecursion » Sun, Aug 14, 2022, 2:45 AM UTC

josephcsible wrote: post #52

tailrecursion wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The child's phone can be set up one way or another. In this hypothetical scheme (described above), a child complaining about anonymous abusive messages is ignored by the school. School's not responsible, because the child's phone is set up improperly. If phone were in order, phone would not receive anonymous messages. A child receiving a traceable abusive message is quickly resolved, and presumably this kind of abuse…

> a child complaining about anonymous abusive messages is ignored by the school. School's not responsible, because the child's phone is set up improperly. Imagine if the police requested, but technically didn't mandate, that parents install location tracking apps on their children's phones, and that they then ignored missing persons reports for anyone who didn't do so.

No post body was provided.

Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#59

Post by arcastroe » Sun, Aug 14, 2022, 2:46 AM UTC

puffoflogic wrote: post #51

vorpalhex wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it's time to escalate. If the "speaking softly" isn't working, it's time for the stick. My aunt had an exchange student in her care. At some point there was an altercation and a boy at school slapped the (female) exchange student. School didn't want to do anything about it, was hemming and hawing. So my aunt phoned the boys mother and explained the situation - and was met with a "well I can't do anything". My au…

This is not a story I would tell online. When your aunt threatened to go to the police and then failed to follow through, it may have become extortion. You can threaten to sue; you can actually go to the police; you can even tell someone you're going to the police; but what you cannot do is merely threaten to go to the police.

"Send me $10,000 or I will go to the police to report past bullying of my child" is extortion. "Stop future bullying or I will go to the police to report said bullying" is not extortion. IANAL.

Re: School demands search of text messaging, outside of school

#60

Post by mlyle » Sun, Aug 14, 2022, 2:49 AM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #53

puffoflogic wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a story I would tell online. When your aunt threatened to go to the police and then failed to follow through, it may have become extortion. You can threaten to sue; you can actually go to the police; you can even tell someone you're going to the police; but what you cannot do is merely threaten to go to the police.

Extortion: the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats. If I squint my eyes I can sort of see what you're getting at. But on the flip side, this aunt also called the parent to make sure their duty was done. So it would be hard to claim "discipline your child, please, else I will need to file a police report to stop your child's harassment" is extortion.

I agree this is probably not extortion, but people step close to this line and have been surprised by prosecution or litigation. e.g. pay for the damages or I'm going to the police...