Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

sf.streetsblog.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 100 posts

Re: BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

#51

Post by tedunangst »

sowbug wrote: post #45

When I was a kid and tried to figure out why this fare/penalty existed, I guessed it was to compensate for people who traveled somewhere to pick up an item from a friend who'd meet them at the station and hand it through the gate to them, and then they'd go back home, all without leaving the station. It all seemed like an intricate solution to a small problem.

What makes it intricate? There's a big table of station x station fares. Filling the diagonal with $6 is no more complicated than filling it with $0.

Re: BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

#52

Post by troutwine »

linuxhansl wrote: post #47

BART... As I always say: One of the richest parts of the richest state of the richest nation on this planet and we have ... BART. How is this possible?

Because the politics of the rich don't make good infrastructure for common use?

So, BART was originally constructed for the purposes of suburban commuters heading into San Francisco for white-collar work with generous no-travel times baked in for maintenance. It's why there's no track duplication: if you're shutting down fully for hours you have plenty of time to work on maintenance. Almost immediately this assumption proved false, the hours got extended but the basic design is still in place. And, if you're really, really rich here you'd pay someone to drive you. Why futz with the BART? All you, the rarefied wealthy, need to do is keep BART limping along just enough that the service workers and middle class white-collar people and what not you rely on can get to work.

It's how we get BART, it's how we get a serious housing shortage.

Re: BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

#53

Post by kepler1 »

It's funny how BART (and most California agencies) put very quantifiable costs on people who obey the rules in a way that you've foreseen, but in the meantime completely ignore farehoppers, freeriders, etc. who simply hop over turnstiles or otherwise don't follow the law.

I guess it's too expensive (or "not equitable") to take the time to enforce rules that you've created. And we are too nice to create firm but unpopular rules for things that do come up.

Re: BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

#54

Post by andrewxdiamond »

magila wrote: post #37
jonas21 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until recently, BART used magstripe tickets where all information was stored on the ticket itself. It might not have been possible to implement a time window with that. That doesn't explain why they didn't add this when migrating to the Clipper card, but I feel like "nobody thought to change it" or "we wanted to reduce risk by not introducing changes while migrating" seem like more likely explanations than malice.

I wouldn't call it malice. It's simply a rational decision. BART makes more money with the fee than without, so absent political pressure to discontinue it why would they? Also, Clipper cards have been around many years. They aren't a recent addition to BART.

I’d take it further and say this isn’t intentional at all.

Having worked in, for, and around governments, this was almost certainly an oversight that hasn’t been a big enough of a fire in comparison to the other fires.

Making a public stink about it makes it a bigger fire though, so the system is working as intended!

Re: BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

#55

Post by enos_feedler »

I recently paid for BART parking garage during free hours because there is no sign anywhere that tells you which hours paid parking is enforced. I looked it up after I paid for the spot and realized I didn't need to. I imagined the reason for this was the same. They are making extra money by not informing when you don't need to pay, why change it?

Re: BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

#56

Post by enos_feedler »

mateo411 wrote: post #38

How often does this really happen? Maybe once per 2000 rides? It appears there is a way to get your money back although it might be annoying and bureaucratic. I think there are bigger issues we can focus on with BART. The should focus on fixing the signaling so we can get more trains through the Transbay tunnel. We should make BART more reliable and finish the San Jose extension on time and under budget. I'm very sup…

When I paid for BART parking during free hours I just flagged the transaction on my credit card as "merchant did not provide service" or something to that effect and got my money back. I guess if it involves Clipper card you can't easily do this.

Re: BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

#57

Post by jokethrowaway »

linuxhansl wrote: post #47

BART... As I always say: One of the richest parts of the richest state of the richest nation on this planet and we have ... BART. How is this possible?

Because it's a public service and it doesn't have incentives to get better. It also has no fair competition from the private sector, given the amount of money in infrastructure that was spent on BART is unmatched.

Look at how much private transportation improved (taxis -> uber).

Besides, BART is the last of SF's problems, I'd rank homelessness and crime higher.

Re: BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

#58

Post by CoffeeOnWrite »

paulgb wrote: post #30
danans wrote: post #5

You can go to the kiosk at any BART station and the station attendant will put a sticker on your card to indicate that you are leaving via the same station you entered and allow you to exit via the emergency doors, therefore not incurring the excursion fare. This is in case you decide not to take the train, or forgot something at home. I suspect the excursion fare today is trying to disincentivize the use of the trai…

> You can go to the kiosk at any BART station and the station attendant will put a sticker on your card to indicate that you are leaving via the same station you entered and allow you to exit via the emergency doors, therefore not incurring the excursion fare. What if you use the phone app and don't have a physical card with you?

The sticker is just a plain sticker. I would assume they'd let you put it on an alternate surface..

Re: BART’s excursion fare: Agency earns millions from passengers not riding trains

#60

Post by madcaptenor »

geebee wrote: post #24

Isn't there a hack/scam where you could (in the absence of a same-station charge) pay less or nothing to ride bart? I remember people talking bout this ages ago (like, 20 years ago). You keep two bart cards going, and use the same one to enter and leave the same station. If there's a same-station charge, you can use it to enter/leave a nearby station, avoiding the higher fee for longer trips. Is there a possibility t…

I've seen somewhere an analysis of which station pairs this works on. It was either for BART or the Washington Metro, both of which have distance-based fares. (This is amazingly ungooglable.)
Post reply on HN