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Essential Climbing Knots

climbing.com

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Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#51

Post by [deleted] »

codeduck wrote: post #38
kyledrake wrote: post #26

Random comment: Securing the trace eight with a second knot is really not necessary, as it is a self tightening knot. Most climbers don't do it, my climbing safety book doesn't show it and all gyms I've been too, sans one in Vancouver WA for some reason, don't require it. Rough rule is two fists length for the tail and you're good. Another comment mentioned this too, it's much easier to untie if tied in a specific wa…

stupid question from a sailor: how does a trace eight differ from a standard figure of eight?

[deleted]

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#52

Post by rane »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #20
Brajeshwar wrote: post #18

I know that I'm highly unlikely to use any of these but I like to believe I will and I need to know. Recently, Knots3D[1] was on Hackernews Homepage and I bought the app. Now, while I'm waiting for something, and am not reading; instead of Twitter or other scrolling apps, I just watch the knots! One day, any day, at some fateful party with friends, we may need to tie a knot, any knot, and I'm going to pick up one fro…

A bowline and trucker's hitch is something useful in everyday situations. Like tying something down in a truck bed or to the top of a car (moving a mattress, etc.). People don't realize you can pull a line very, very tight and get a ton of grip but you need the mechanical advantage of a trucker's hitch type of knot and tension system. They're both extremely useful when camping too.

Reminds me of this video: https://youtu.be/tK-UebImvwA?t=335

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#53

Post by username223 »

Climbers like to get way into the weeds on knots (“but if this one is loaded with a wet dyneema sling around a deciduous tree…”), so I thought this article was admirably restrained, and does a good job explaining why you’d use each. I’d personally say that a figure eight and overhand are necessary, followed by the clove hitch and prusik. The double fisherman is mostly useful for soloing what you just abseiled after your rope gets stuck. ;-)

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#54

Post by andyjohnson0 »

codeduck wrote: post #38
kyledrake wrote: post #26

Random comment: Securing the trace eight with a second knot is really not necessary, as it is a self tightening knot. Most climbers don't do it, my climbing safety book doesn't show it and all gyms I've been too, sans one in Vancouver WA for some reason, don't require it. Rough rule is two fists length for the tail and you're good. Another comment mentioned this too, it's much easier to untie if tied in a specific wa…

stupid question from a sailor: how does a trace eight differ from a standard figure of eight?

I don't think theres any difference in the final knot - its how you tie it. Tying a figure of eight in the rope and then re-tracing it back is necessary because your harness loops (not shown in the pic) will be in the bight. I'm guessing a sailor wouldn't need to tie anything into the bight, so retracing wouldn't be necessary.

I've never heard of a fig-eight being referred to as "trace" but this may be an US-ism and I'm European.

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#55

Post by username223 »

leksak wrote: post #19
steve_gh wrote: post #2

Hmm. A few thoughts. There are alternatives to the Prussik such as the Klemheist which don't jam as badly. I wouldn't use a ring bend - the double fisherman's is superior for tying rope or cord ends together to create a sling. And I definitely wouldn't use either a ring bend or a double fisherman's to link ropes for abseil. An overhand tied in both ropes (with a 50cm tail) -aka the EDK or European Death Knot is way s…

Agreed. If anyone is curious, I recommend reading https://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog/view/rappel-knots-1 (it has helpful illustrations on why the EDK doesn't catch) And I'd also opt for a Kleimheist or Autoblock over the classic Prusik. Not sure if I think this was a good selection of essential climbing knots and the presentation was odd. For instance, I'd present the Prusik in an abseiling context. The article me…

Props for the Andy Kirkpatrick link. He’s a no-nonsense guy with a ton of experience.

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#56

Post by tweetle_beetle »

wskish wrote: post #46
kyledrake wrote: post #26

Random comment: Securing the trace eight with a second knot is really not necessary, as it is a self tightening knot. Most climbers don't do it, my climbing safety book doesn't show it and all gyms I've been too, sans one in Vancouver WA for some reason, don't require it. Rough rule is two fists length for the tail and you're good. Another comment mentioned this too, it's much easier to untie if tied in a specific wa…

I was taught that the 2nd knot just provides quick visual proof that the tail is long enough to not pull through under load.

Yes, exactly. It's a test rather than a functional feature. It's useful in a group context for visually checking safety. However, it can be less safe for shorter people and children, especially on a thick, worn rope - it can end up as a solid block which accelerates rapidly to face height during a fall.

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#57

Post by codeduck »

endgame wrote: post #45
codeduck wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

stupid question from a sailor: how does a trace eight differ from a standard figure of eight?

It's a loop knot made using a figure-8, then retracing the knot with the tail. Climbers use it where sailors would tend to use a bowline. I've heard various reasons why: "it's easier to teach people in the gym", "it's harder to get wrong", "the dynamic ropes climbers use put bowlines at risk of capsizing".

I've been sailing since I was seven years old, and I still have to think when I'm tying a bowline. So I can believe the comment about it being easier to teach.

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#58

Post by hpaavola »

dmos62 wrote: post #37
hpaavola wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you link to a formal document specifying the ban? I'm not Australian, never even been there, so I have no idea how the legal system works there, but I'm very skeptical that any knot could be illegal in any civilized country.

Wait until you hear of banned books.

You are free to discuss about books as you wish, but books are not knots.

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#59

Post by willyt »

gumby wrote: post #27

Note that the monkey’s fist is an illegal knot everywhere in Australia and you can go to jail just for tying one.

Really? But they’re used on everything from fishing boats to cruise liners on the ends of heaving lines. You’re not supposed to weight them with lead, and if you’d done this and someone got hurt I think you’d be in trouble with health and safety but I’m sure they’re not illegal here. What do you put on the end of a heaving line in Aus?
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