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Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

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Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#51

Post by mgraczyk »

Sounds like blatant protectionism to me.

If I'm reading the ruling correctly, the relevant legal standard applied here is completely bogus. They find that it is a violation of GDPR because the parent company could access the data, in principle if they wanted to. It doesn't matter if there are safeguards, technical, or institutional preventions in place.

However, the exact same argument applies to any EU company with any internet connection, and directly applies to any EU company with infrastructure in the US. EU companies could, in principle, transfer data to the US intentionally or by accident. If technical, institutional, and legal prevention isn't good enough for US companies, why is it good enough for EU companies? Seems like GDPR has to also be construed to prevent EU companies from doing business in the US.

If the counter argument is that US companies could be compelled by the US government to hand over data, while EU companies cannot be, that is factually untrue.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#52

Post by masswerk »

jimbob45 wrote: post #5

Isn’t this sort of what we accuse the Chinese of doing? The US designs the technology and then the Chinese manufacturers steal that design to make their own? Except now, the EU is more or less forcing American companies to sell unaffiliated spin-offs to the EU to continue doing business there. Seems a bit underhanded to change the rules now after so long, especially considering the fact that the EU can’t make these c…

This is about US legislation and jurisdiction extending to foreign territory and thus conflicting with local legislation and corporations subsequently failing to comply with legislation regulating that market.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#53

Post by solar-ice »

xyzzyz wrote: post #13
akmarinov wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those US companies are free to not be on the EU market, just saying

This sword cuts both ways. US can also stop sales of Airbuses, Volkswagens, IKEA furniture etc. under some fishy premise. If EU does that to US companies, why shouldn’t US do it to EU ones? This kind of tit for tat trade war would be a loss to everyone compared to cooperation, but is still preferred to cooperating with a defector.

How on earth is "the US is able to demand personal data of EU citizens without due process" a fishy premise?

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#54

Post by lizardactivist »

plandis wrote: post #20

US needs to economically retaliate in kind. If the US has the same data protections as the EU they’d make up some other excuse to attack US companies. This is what happens when you can’t compete you make up regulatory excuses. I’m sure I’ll get downvoted by Europeans but it’s the truth. Look at the valuable companies and where they are located :)

The NSA and the CIA have been at that for decades. But of course people like you believe it is and has always been fully in their right.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#55

Post by superchroma »

plandis wrote: post #20

US needs to economically retaliate in kind. If the US has the same data protections as the EU they’d make up some other excuse to attack US companies. This is what happens when you can’t compete you make up regulatory excuses. I’m sure I’ll get downvoted by Europeans but it’s the truth. Look at the valuable companies and where they are located :)

Sure, they can champion their own citizens' rights on issues of where and how data is stored, and prevent American user data from being sent offshore in Europe. That would be ideal. :)

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#56

Post by mgraczyk »

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #24
jimbob45 wrote: post #5

Isn’t this sort of what we accuse the Chinese of doing? The US designs the technology and then the Chinese manufacturers steal that design to make their own? Except now, the EU is more or less forcing American companies to sell unaffiliated spin-offs to the EU to continue doing business there. Seems a bit underhanded to change the rules now after so long, especially considering the fact that the EU can’t make these c…

I hope you are aware that "the cloud" is not some secret, mysterious piece of technology that the EU can't figure out. We have software engineers as well as data centers and EU-based cloud companies. Digital consumer networks were established here long before the U.S and the internet was invented here. Your arrogance is grating.

Right, and the goal of this sort of ruling is to make sure that those EU-based engineers have work and get paid. It has nothing to do with consumer protection or privacy. If it did, EU companies that have servers in the US would be banned from processing EU user data for the exact reason spelled out in this ruling.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#57

Post by testaccountfor »

mgraczyk wrote: post #51

Sounds like blatant protectionism to me. If I'm reading the ruling correctly, the relevant legal standard applied here is completely bogus. They find that it is a violation of GDPR because the parent company could access the data, in principle if they wanted to. It doesn't matter if there are safeguards, technical, or institutional preventions in place. However, the exact same argument applies to any EU company with…

US cloud companies can be forced by the US government to spy on European citizens. That's the reasoning behind this ruling. Are you not aware of the NSA spying programs?

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#58

Post by webmobdev »

Thank god at least some government has the sense to take steps to protect their country's sovereignty. All the US has to do to regain trust is to stop using BigTech for spying on other countries. To begin with, it can start by creating laws and regulations like the GDPR (or better) and move on to breaking up the monopolies of BigTech.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#59

Post by colechristensen »

mgraczyk wrote: post #51

Sounds like blatant protectionism to me. If I'm reading the ruling correctly, the relevant legal standard applied here is completely bogus. They find that it is a violation of GDPR because the parent company could access the data, in principle if they wanted to. It doesn't matter if there are safeguards, technical, or institutional preventions in place. However, the exact same argument applies to any EU company with…

I assume the WTO will get involved to clarify and the safegards required to operate in Europe will get rather well defined. Lots of powerful interests involved which should get this sorted out eventually. Much uncertainty until then.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#60

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #47
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you are aware that "the cloud" is not some secret, mysterious piece of technology that the EU can't figure out. We have software engineers as well as data centers and EU-based cloud companies. Digital consumer networks were established here long before the U.S and the internet was invented here. Your arrogance is grating.

> the internet was invented here In Europe?

Well the Web if you prefer.
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