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GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

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Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#51

Post by grandmczeb »

panabee wrote: post #45
grandmczeb wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very imperfect analogy, but CPUs are typically designed using a high level language like SystemVerilog (equivalent to something like C++ in the software world.) To actually get the CPU manufactured, you have to "compile" it into a binary format that specifies the physical layout of the chip while respecting a set of design rules for whatever process you're targeting. These rules are usually considered highl…

once a process is no longer bleeding edge, what's the benefit of keeping manufacturing details secret? at this stage, presumably no one would risk the capital and time required to copy the foundry while publishing details increases the likelihood of attracting more clients. thanks in advance for the clarification on why the industry operates the way it does.

> once a process is no longer bleeding edge, what's the benefit of keeping manufacturing details secret?

Even if it's not bleeding edge, there still might be special features or secrets they want to protect. For really old nodes, I think it boils down to two reasons: 1) Clients with money don't care about open design rules, so there was basically no demand for it. 2) Foundries generally have a pretty strong culture of secrecy, so without someone asking externally they're not going to open source anything.

Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#52

Post by spitfire »

mnahkies wrote: post #42
redanddead wrote: post #5

I might get some hate for this, but Google seems to be doing some really cool things, like in fintech as well as this silicon project. Google Finance is one of the only players I've seen with an interest of opening things up when so much of the industry is about pushing others out and restricting access. Like for example the CME deal, to open source live, low latency stock market data. Bloomberg might let you rent it…

Ibkr gives me close to real time data for about $6 a month - I've not read the fine print closely but I'd be shocked if it is 15min stale. It's localized to certain exchanges but covers most bases. Ultimately any retail investor is unlikely to be able to capitalise on millisecond data without developing their own hft bots

Last time I was heavily playing with IB's API they were 250ms rollups of the market. So not useful for HFT or anything, but plenty fast enough for prosumer trading.

Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#53

Post by unethical_ban »

skybrian wrote: post #41
gurjeet wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... data the avg person sees is 15 minutes delayed ..., that may as well be a light year. Nit pick: you've got your units mixed up; minute is a unit of time, and light-year is a unit of distance.

In astronomy, aren't they in some sense equivalent? Andromeda galaxy is 2.5 million light years way, so we are seeing it as it was 2.5 million years in the past.

No. Light year is the distance.

Distance/time * time = distance

Waiting a "light year" would be a year.

Yes, you are correct that astronomers talk about seeing into the past by X number of years when we look at a galaxy X light years away.

Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#54

Post by bergenty »

redanddead wrote: post #5

I might get some hate for this, but Google seems to be doing some really cool things, like in fintech as well as this silicon project. Google Finance is one of the only players I've seen with an interest of opening things up when so much of the industry is about pushing others out and restricting access. Like for example the CME deal, to open source live, low latency stock market data. Bloomberg might let you rent it…

I’m going to pile on the good times here because I think Google is doing an amazing job with YouTube, their search always seems to return what I’m looking for, I like the Google workspace suite, I love Google earth and maps, I’m totally for their approach with self driving with Waymo, I appreciate their ethical stances, like Google chrome, always loved gmail, love that they try so many moonshots and am grateful for android. I hope they make their own silicon soon. All of these seem to be unpopular opinions now but there it is.

Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#55

Post by unethical_ban »

grandmczeb wrote: post #43
skywal_l wrote: post #14

Can somebody ELI5 this to me? Wbo will that help? And how? 180nm seems big, at least for computer CPUs.

This is a very imperfect analogy, but CPUs are typically designed using a high level language like SystemVerilog (equivalent to something like C++ in the software world.) To actually get the CPU manufactured, you have to "compile" it into a binary format that specifies the physical layout of the chip while respecting a set of design rules for whatever process you're targeting. These rules are usually considered highl…

I dream of a world where public libraries have CPU printers.

180nm isn't crazy awful though, is it? That's about 20 years back, so you won't be doing ML, but it's enough to have industry applications and low power general purpose computing.

Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#56

Post by koeng »

Super excited for this! Right now I’m working on a project to build open source DNA synthesis chips (if deployed right, drops DNA synthesis cost by 100-500x market price), and efabless with their tools created with Google’s support have simply enabled the project to even be possible. I am grateful to Google for doing this.

Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#57

Post by octoberfranklin »

Important note: this is a high voltage process for things like power+battery management chips. It is not a general logic process. The press release really should mention this.

The transistors on this process are very slow and power-hungry, even for such an old process -- the lowest rated supply voltage for this process is 3.3 volts whereas 1.8 volts is typical for 180nm. That's ~3.35x the active power consumption and slower switching speeds due to higher threshhold. It's meant for people who had 350nm designs (mid-1990s) and want to migrate them with the minimum possible effort (nearly all fabs have shut down their 350nm lines).

It is totally awesome that Google were able to convince GF to release this PDK! But they should be more up-front about the fact that this is a High Voltage process; most people won't notice the "MCU" at the end of the process name or know what it stands for. Their announcement about a 90nm process with Skywater last week is a big deal; this not so much, unless it's just the first of a series of process releases from GloFo.

Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#58

Post by octoberfranklin »

koeng wrote: post #56

Super excited for this! Right now I’m working on a project to build open source DNA synthesis chips (if deployed right, drops DNA synthesis cost by 100-500x market price), and efabless with their tools created with Google’s support have simply enabled the project to even be possible. I am grateful to Google for doing this.

> have simply enabled the project to even be possible

Are you sure about that? The mandatory "Caravel" pad ring occupies the entire top layer of the chip as well as a ring around the edges. It hermetically entombs the design area that you control.

There is no exposed surface under your control for any kind of chemically-relevant device like a microwell.

Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#59

Post by colordrops »

skybrian wrote: post #49
colordrops wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did I say that was inaccurate or untrue?

It's an off-topic complaint. Just because someone posts a link about Google (or substitute any other company) doesn't mean it's okay to post whatever complaints about Google you want. Particularly when they're the same sort of repetitive complaints people post every time. We've heard it, give it a rest.

Is it a random complaint though? How is it any different from everyone regularly warning against investing in google services because they are shut down so often? Seems pretty relevant for anyone who is considering investing in this project but isn't aware of Google's behavior with other large open source projects, e.g. Android.

Imagine if people told naysayers to shut up when Microsoft was trying to destroy Linux with the SCO lawsuits. Your argumebt actively damages the open source cause.

Re: GlobalFoundries joins Google’s open source silicon initiative

#60

Post by mkl »

sitkack wrote: post #37
gurjeet wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... data the avg person sees is 15 minutes delayed ..., that may as well be a light year. Nit pick: you've got your units mixed up; minute is a unit of time, and light-year is a unit of distance.

I blame George Lucas for this.

Star Wars confused parsecs with a unit of time, not light years.
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