Live data from Hacker News

I miss the programmable web (2021)

matt-rickard.com

51–60 of 180 posts

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#51
post #22

I miss: bookmarklets and user scripts I use bookmarklets all the time. I can't imagine living without them. For example, this is how I read HN: https://twitter.com/marekgibney/status/1551483561621979136 The bookmarklet takes me to the latest HN post I have not seen. When I click it again, it takes me to the next I have not seen. As soon as I see a post I have seen before, I know I am up to date. I can't imagine readi…

That looks great. Is there something similar for comments ?

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#52

I miss the 3D web. In the late 90's Silicon Graphics machines came with an out of the box experience delivered by Netscape Navigator. The page was rendered in frames, so you only downloaded the navigation frames once, not with every click. Some of this navigation and some of this content was in VRML that you could interact with. The full product tour could be explored in a 3D world. The UI UX did not seem OTT. It fel…

There's been good webgl & webgpu work. Whats been sad is that none of this is hypermedia like. I kept hoping I could someday have some DOM surfaces I could put inside the 3d game.

Apple's been driving a "model" element for the web. Personally Im unthrilled that it's an object but bereft of an environment; there s no real space or navigability.

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#53
>The security benefit to consumers of blocking user scripts is probably a net positive for the average internet user.

Strong disagree. Extensions and User scripts are an unmapped wild west.

Providing a registry type system to securely vend packages/scripts is a very hard security problem.

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/mozilla-block...

https://iamakulov.com/notes/npm-malicious-packages/

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#54
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind giving me an example of something you've wanted to do that is really hard (or even nearly impossible) due to the these issues (so I have a standing concrete challenge case)?

Try it on a Tailwind & React based site. Lucky for a site like that it used NextJS so it has a lot of JSON state dumped in plaintext.

I am asking for a concrete task challenge, not a kind of site or technology.

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#55
I miss the "immediate web". Being able to work on simple things without feeling like they are useless, pointless or perceptibly outdated.

Now it's install node, install git, install npm, install a gazillion packages, run localhost then hope everything works. Build command, clean command, eject commands, deploy command, pre processors, post processers, documentations full of so much jargon that i feel burnt out looking at it, hydration rehydration, pre-rendering, headless cms....on and on.

I find myself reverting to writing simple bash scripts, userscripts - they are more enduring, not built on a stack of fickle dependencies, fads and ever increasing complexity.

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#56
post #17
post #10

Huh? Userscripts are dead according to author, but I apparently never got the notice because I have about a dozen of those things installed right now. Three of them are for YouTube because it's this much annoying as is.

What do your user scripts do if you don't me asking? On a site note: Been looking for one to show reccomendations always based on simmiliar vids, not my recently watched and whatever the black box algorithm is offering me. Unfortunately I never figured out how do it properly, since the position of the element seems to be random and sometimes straight up missing.

I use one to redirect youtube shorts pages to the regular youtube UI. Also one for old.reddit.

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#57
post #51
post #22

I miss: bookmarklets and user scripts I use bookmarklets all the time. I can't imagine living without them. For example, this is how I read HN: https://twitter.com/marekgibney/status/1551483561621979136 The bookmarklet takes me to the latest HN post I have not seen. When I click it again, it takes me to the next I have not seen. As soon as I see a post I have seen before, I know I am up to date. I can't imagine readi…

That looks great. Is there something similar for comments ?

The HN structure is the same for top level posts and comments. So the bookmarklet works for both.

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#58
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind giving me an example of something you've wanted to do that is really hard (or even nearly impossible) due to the these issues (so I have a standing concrete challenge case)?

Trying to block Google’s “people also search for” div (when you navigate back to the search results page) is not easy IIRC

You can try these uBlock filters. Difference is night and day

    www.google.com##div[role="heading"]:has-text(/^People also ask$/):upward(5)
    www.google.com##span:has-text(/^People also ask$/):upward(5)

    www.google.com##div[role="heading"]:has-text(/^Cast$/):upward(5)
    www.google.com##span:has-text(/^Cast$/):upward(5)

    www.google.com##h3:has-text(/^Videos/):upward(5)
    www.google.com##h3:has-text(/^Images/):upward(5)

    www.google.com##div[role="heading"]:has-text(/^People/):upward(5)
    www.google.com##span:has-text(/^People/):upward(5)
    www.google.com##h4:has-text(/^People/):upward(5)

    www.google.com##span:has-text(Related searches):upward(5)

    www.google.com##span:has-text(/^Latest/):upward(4)

    www.google.com##h3:has-text(/^Top stories/):upward(6)

    www.google.com##div:has-text(/^Trailers/):upward(4)

    www.google.com##g-scrolling-carousel

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#59

I miss the "immediate web". Being able to work on simple things without feeling like they are useless, pointless or perceptibly outdated. Now it's install node, install git, install npm, install a gazillion packages, run localhost then hope everything works. Build command, clean command, eject commands, deploy command, pre processors, post processers, documentations full of so much jargon that i feel burnt out lookin…

You can choose not to use most of that stuff. I recently moved some stuff over to esbuild and that's been pretty helpful for that. Jest is a big and heavy thing but I've found it's the test framework that gives the least headaches without really needing to be configured. And of course deploying can be a one-line "run esbuild with the output going here". Or even check in the artifacts!

You lose the nice stuff like livereload but you can hack in something to that effect if you want to.

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#60
It's become harder to develop stupid simple bookmarklets because modern web pages are trickier to reverse-engineer, the market has expanded by a lot, and now people can make working on handy WebExtensions their full time job, and those are nothing more than bundled userscripts and bookmarklets that have access to some bonus APIs.

It used to be browser extensions were only used by a select few power users, if you don't count those installed by malware/shitware. Now it's common to see folks who only use their computers for Instagram and Youtube having all sorts of browser extensions installed intentionally, and use regularly. And they're essentially just bookmarklet/userscript bundles with access to some special extra APIs.

What's more, with the proliferation of Electron in desktop applications, now even more of the UIs we use are programmable.

Post reply on HN