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On “A Canticle for Leibowitz”

loukidelis.com

51–60 of 142 posts

Re: On “A Canticle for Leibowitz”

#51

I really enjoyed the book. I’m almost always down for some sci-fi dystopia, and as a religious person I enjoyed this particular lens on it. A couple I highly recommend from another Catholic author, The Lord of the World, and Dawn of All, by Robert Hugh Benson. Those two are more early 20th century Catholicism in worldview, which I particularly enjoyed.

Not quite a dystopia, but of you (like me) also loved those books, then a highly recommend CS Lewis' Space Trilogy. One of my favourite series of all time, especially the last one.

Those are good, but kind of strange and hard to get through, especially the first one.

Re: On “A Canticle for Leibowitz”

#52
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Declining population growth is in all ways a positive. Rising population is a good thing to essentially linearly improve nominal GDP, but does little to improve per capita GDP. Other than that nominal GDP bump I struggle to see any positive associated with population growth. Most people put off having kids because, effectively, people are living much longer and it’s economically easier to have kids older. Effective c…

I disagree - declining population is a disaster that only ends in a country becoming poor. As you allude to in your response, sub-replacement-rate fertility is what drives population decline, so declining populations are always ageing populations. The economics of ageing populations don't work for obvious reasons - as people get older they need more care and produce less, and with fewer workers to provide that care,…

I think you made an erroneous assumption. Here you say the declining birthdays are always aging populations that require more care and this is a net drag. First, care and health services do contribute to GDP and provide good income work for those providing care. Second, while the aging population is larger than the younger population who are working at first that’s just because during the elder generations birth rate was higher. As that ages out of the population you’re back to an equilibrium. Third, aging population doesn’t mean decrepit population. Part of our aging story in the developed world is that quantity of life has sort of capped out but we are continuously improving the quality of life at all ages through medicine, nutrition, education, etc. Fourth, people are working considerably longer. People used to retire around 50 to 55, then 60-65, now it’s more towards 62-70. I don’t see that trend reversing frankly especially as quality of life care improves which I expect it to dramatically in the next 10 years. I suspect we are also within spitting distances of genetic, mRNA, and other cancer treatments that virtually eliminate the need for radiation and chemo while providing astounding outcomes as close to “cured” as you can get with cancer. Fifth, you bring up Japan as well one should - but if you look at Japan they’re doing fine by any standard and their per capita GDP is about the same as it was in 1990 in adjusted currency. It’s not like we’ve never seen youth / aging boom and busts in history and everything is fine.

As a final point I think older workers are generally more productive as long as they’re able to use the tools they’ve developed skill with. With the advent of computers and information technology older generations were unable to map their skills to the new way of work. Society existed in the state they were used to for 10,000 years and suddenly instead of being masters as the elder had been, they were bumbling fools - made more tragic in that they were otherwise highly skilled at what they did with a lifetime of experience. This colors our perception of the aged because we are still in the middle of that transition. But do you think you and I will be limited by ability to use information technology? Mental decline doesn’t generally start until much later in life, and people are doing careers into their 70’s with success.

Re: On “A Canticle for Leibowitz”

#53

Easily one of my favourite novels. It's riddled with beauty; there is a lens held up to the shepherding of knowledge that made me really appreciate what it means to be a scholar. It's a wild ride and I think a book people should read. My fav quote, "When you tire of living, change itself seems evil, does it not? for then any change at all disturbs the deathlike peace of the life-weary.”

I would like to read the book and I’m sure it’s good. But whenever a character says “does it not?” I want to soak the book in gasoline and light it on fire.

Re: On “A Canticle for Leibowitz”

#54

This indeed is a lovely book, one of my very favorites, and one of the most influential science fiction novels written. Maybe only Vonnegut was able to match the combination of grimness and humor. Walter M Miller Jr was a Catholic, and it helps to see the book through that particular blend of hopeless original sin and joyful redemption. He, and many of his characters, believed in both. It's a sensitive portrayal of p…

> Walter M Miller Jr was a Catholic

On that note, I couldn’t help but read the book as a critique of the Protestant reformation.

Re: On “A Canticle for Leibowitz”

#55

Easily one of my favourite novels. It's riddled with beauty; there is a lens held up to the shepherding of knowledge that made me really appreciate what it means to be a scholar. It's a wild ride and I think a book people should read. My fav quote, "When you tire of living, change itself seems evil, does it not? for then any change at all disturbs the deathlike peace of the life-weary.”

I would like to read the book and I’m sure it’s good. But whenever a character says “does it not?” I want to soak the book in gasoline and light it on fire.

Why?

That is such an arbitrary phrase to have such a visceral reaction to.

Re: On “A Canticle for Leibowitz”

#57
post #26

In the early 90s, I read all of the Hugo winners at the time. A Canticle for Leibowitz was one of my favorites. A few years later, it was one of the three major influences we used when making the original Fallout (along with Road Warrior and City of Lost Children).

Chris, I just want you to know that Fallout was the epitome of my entire gaming life, and one of the highlights of my teen years.

I played Fallout 1, 2, and Tactics with my now deceased sister's friends when I was way too young to appreciate half the humor. I cherish these memories.

... and sometimes when I end up in bad parts of various cities, certain dive bars, etc. I think about the "Cafe of Broken Dreams". :)

Re: On “A Canticle for Leibowitz”

#58
post #26

In the early 90s, I read all of the Hugo winners at the time. A Canticle for Leibowitz was one of my favorites. A few years later, it was one of the three major influences we used when making the original Fallout (along with Road Warrior and City of Lost Children).

That's amazing, thank you for creating that. Some of my favorite parts of the Fallout series were the little slices of frozen catastrophe hidden off in corners, piles of bones and old clothing and a suitcase full of items that told half a story. I read that book after I had played Fallout and it felt so familiar because of it.

Re: On “A Canticle for Leibowitz”

#59
post #26

In the early 90s, I read all of the Hugo winners at the time. A Canticle for Leibowitz was one of my favorites. A few years later, it was one of the three major influences we used when making the original Fallout (along with Road Warrior and City of Lost Children).

It's strange, you rarely hear it mentioned in the same breath as other post-apocalyptic literature like A Boy and His Dog or I Am Legend. I was only made aware of it while reading an article about the making of Fallout.

So, thanks for the indirect recommendation!

Re: On “A Canticle for Leibowitz”

#60
post #57
post #26

In the early 90s, I read all of the Hugo winners at the time. A Canticle for Leibowitz was one of my favorites. A few years later, it was one of the three major influences we used when making the original Fallout (along with Road Warrior and City of Lost Children).

Chris, I just want you to know that Fallout was the epitome of my entire gaming life, and one of the highlights of my teen years. I played Fallout 1, 2, and Tactics with my now deceased sister's friends when I was way too young to appreciate half the humor. I cherish these memories. ... and sometimes when I end up in bad parts of various cities, certain dive bars, etc. I think about the "Cafe of Broken Dreams". :)

Thank you for playing! I appreciate your kind words.
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