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Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

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Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#51

I always think it's weird how instead of just improving public transit, we've all become fixated on self driving vehicles. Good transit would mean most people don't need to operate a vehicle while having a plethora of other benefits like combating climate change and more efficient land use (if you live in a suburb, take note of the sheer amount land dedicated to parking; it's often more land than the store for retail…

Is it weird? I think there's two big things that explain why it's not weird: 1) How expensive and disruptive to build would "good transit" actually be? 2) How much do people appreciate more direct point-to-point transportation? This incident occured in a town of 51,000 people with a density of 1,700/sq mile, that looks like a suburb of Salt Lake City which itself has 200,000 people with a density of 1,800/sq mile. Wh…

So…… 25 sq miles. Let’s assume a 5 mile x 5 mile grid. Let’s put a bus route every half mile. That’s 20 bus routes. Let’s run a bus on each route every 15 minutes…. The buses run at an average speed of say 20 mph. So each bus takes 20 minutes to traverse the route in one direction. You would need 2 buses per route. That’s 40 buses. Let’s say it costs $100 per hour to run the bus. (Googled it). So that’s $4000/hr to run the entire system. Let’s run the system 16 hours a day. 4000 * 16 = $64000 per day. $23 million dollars a year. The 51,000 population would have 17,000 cars. 17,000 * $5000 = $85 million. So it would be much cheaper to have a bus system….

Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#52
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No major infrastructure changes are needed for buses……

The most expensive thing in transit service for a lot of smaller cities is paying for the drivers. If you want more shorter headways, longer service hours then you're paying a lot more for additional drivers.

Cheap, at any price. Instead we subsidize cars at many, many times that.

You can think of everything you pay for the car you are obliged to maintain as a tax you pay as subsidy for cars. With good public transportation, even massively expanded, you would keep most of that.

Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#53
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transit is not a replacement for cars in USA outside of the densest urban cores, and those areas are paradoxically the worst offenders for crime, drugs, and other urban issues which keep many off of transit.

This is an unpopular opinion but speaking from experience, it’s absolutely true.

It is a product of deliberate policy, so of course it's true. The policy was to drive working people out of cities and into cars, and it worked. You are living their policy.

Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#54

I always think it's weird how instead of just improving public transit, we've all become fixated on self driving vehicles. Good transit would mean most people don't need to operate a vehicle while having a plethora of other benefits like combating climate change and more efficient land use (if you live in a suburb, take note of the sheer amount land dedicated to parking; it's often more land than the store for retail…

What are your ideas for improving public transit? Because the way I see it, public transit suffers from issues that are hard to overcome and are exacerbated by globalized societies.

Public transit simply can't take you everywhere. Even when I e lived in areas with dense bus routes, how one would get to a stop was often a question. Buses are relatively slow and impede traffic, especially in larger cities.

More trains would be nice, but they share many issues with buses, including the fact that they become de facto homeless and mental health shelters on wheels. The only place where I have lived where this wasn't a problem was New Zealand, and that was 18 years ago, so I don't know if that's still the case. I always give up on public transit after seeing enough acts of human degradation and fights breaking out. Let's not forget the smell.

Cars and self driving tech will always have an edge over public transit. We might as well not waste too much time on public transit, but make sure it is adequate while making car-driving more sustainable.

In fact, I would rather prioritize making cities bikeable and walkable more expanding bus service. For some cities it's pretty much too late, but for ones that are kind of spread out there is no reason why there can't be dedicated bikeways.

Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#55

I just spent a few hours on my Honda riding back from LA. I made it to a mile away from my apartment without incident only to watch a Tesla turn the wrong way onto the one-way street I was on. The driver was either using malfunctioning FSD or made a mistake as they immediately pulled up to the passenger-side curb. I'll be steering well clear of these things in the future.

Have you never accidentally turned onto a one way street when driving somewhere unfamiliar? It has definitely happened to me a couple of times. Humans make mistakes.

FSD has no excuse for it: FSD has a map open in front of it at all times. It knows which roads are one-way before it gets to them.

Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#56
post #36

I don't get this autopilot scam - if you don't enjoy driving, take the bus/train and do this planet a favor!

Obviously public transit is far less convenient, and not always an option depending on where you live.

Public transit in the US is drastically underfunded, in favor of massive subsidies for cars and arrangements requiring cars. Compare to much of Europe.

Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla should be liable by virtue of calling things 'autopilot' or 'full self driving' which aren't.

Something that just flies an aircraft straight and level is still an autopilot, so I don't think it's a totally inaccurate metaphor. Ironically in these situations a more understated name would probably work better for PR. Headline of "Tesla on cruise control rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider" gives a much stronger impression of it being the driver's fault.

“Straight and level” in a car is cruise control. The expectation for autopilot would be much higher.

Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#58
post #11

Oh dear. It's getting really hard for anyone to defend this contraption. Perhaps that explains the silence from the Tesla autopilot crowd shocked by the news of this yet another collision from an unsafe piece of 'safety critical' software. Both Autopilot and FSD (Fools Self Driving) needs to be investigated urgently.

The silence is confidence from the Tesla crowd that these are necessary sacrifices to perfect FSD and achieve the dream. That was a literal quote from one owner, to me, in a previous thread here on HN.

Sacrificing themselves, OK. That motorcyclist did not volunteer.

Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#59
post #11

Oh dear. It's getting really hard for anyone to defend this contraption. Perhaps that explains the silence from the Tesla autopilot crowd shocked by the news of this yet another collision from an unsafe piece of 'safety critical' software. Both Autopilot and FSD (Fools Self Driving) needs to be investigated urgently.

Is there a study or article somewhere that shows that Teslas are statistically more unsafe than human drivers? I’ve heard plenty of anecdotes but I don’t recall any hard evidence.

We should be demanding hard evidence before turning it on.

Re: Tesla on autopilot rear ends motorcycle on freeway, killing rider

#60
post #50

"Full Self Crashing". What will it take before we indict Musk for reckless endangerment, and for fraud? What will it take for the NTSB and FTC to issue a recall, and require Tesla to openly refund all the money collected for it?

Do you have statistics behind these claims?
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