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The case for bad coffee (2015)

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Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#51

Like most things, coffee is subject to diminishing returns. I have also owned nearly every device invented to make coffee - as I'm sure many others here have - and I've settled on a simple over-the-mug pour-over cone, but mainly because there's no moving parts or tubes to worry about cleaning. I don't even know what "correct" pour-over technique is, so I'm basically making bog-standard single-serving drip coffee with…

I agree that it's not really about the "quality" of the taste of the thing, I strongly disagree it's generally about tribal membership and signaling. I'm reasonably deep into coffee snobbery now, but not as a part of any group - the only person who knows would be my wife. I genuinely enjoy good coffees and often it's the highlight of my morning. I don't think I'm unique in that, especially since the pandemic.

That said, as with craft beer I think it's very often not about the objective quality (if there is such a thing) so much as it is the novelty. I'm guessing the people you portray negatively are more interested in the fads and trends and always chasing something new than enjoying what's in front of them. The perk of that is funding a broader assortment of offerings, the downside is as you mentioned that it can bring elitism and gate keeping.

I think your "tiny gains in subjective taste experience" is glossing over very real and dramatically different flavors (like a sour beer vs. a hoppy beer).

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#52
Of course the article is less about good coffee or bad coffee but about how coffee is intertwined with our lives and our culture (at least, American culture). For example, the author mentioned Perkins and I knew exactly what he was talking about. The stories about his stepdad Ted were touching as well.

Two memorable coffee experiences come to my mind.

One was a dinner I had with the late John Vlissides (probably known to some HN denizens as one of the Gang of Four design patterns folks) at a basement Indian restaurant in San Francisco. The meal was excellent, and for some reason we had coffee afterward instead of the usual masala chai. The coffee was far from bad, in fact it was quite good, so we asked about it. The waiter came back with the answer. It was not Peet's, not Graffeo, not some gourmet roaster I had never of. It was Hills Brothers. Hills Brothers was (I guess still is) an old school coffee roaster founded in San Francisco in 1900.

Soon after, I went to the grocery store and bought a can of Hills Brothers coffee and brewed a pot. It was disappointing. Not nearly as good as the coffee we had that night in the restaurant. It could be that Hills Brothers delivered different coffee to bulk buyers such as restaurants as opposed to the retail market. Or the difference could have been my dining companions.

Another coffee memory is hauling my late parents' 50+ year old Pyrex glass percolator out of the closet and brewing a pot. I remember when I was a kid, watching the clear water start to boil, and droplets of coffee falling from the grounds basket into the water, turning it first reddish brown, then darker brown, and then finally black. There is something mesmerizing about watching coffee percolate this way. After it was done I had a cup. It tasted kind of burnt, but at the same time kind of thin and weak. Not terrible, but not really very good. I don't think I made it incorrectly; I think this is how coffee always was for my parents. Hm, that was a while ago. It's about time to haul out the percolator again.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#53
I love good coffee but it’s only worth so much money. Oak Cliff Roasters here in Dallas is, by far, my favorite coffee but it’s just gotten so expensive (about $20 for 3/4 lb). I don’t care how good something tastes once it crosses a value threshold in my head i can’t bring myself to buy it. So I just stick to what I find at the grocery store at 1/2 the price. It’s good enough and I don’t feel like a fool buying it.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#56

All coffee is good. It just shouldn't ever cost more than $2. Coffee is not a luxury. It's bread and butter

Modern commercialism is the art of convincing everyone they should pay 50% more for a staple in order to be cool.

Starbuck's prices are insane, and most of what they push isn't even coffee.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#57
post #46

Good grief. If you enjoy it then by definition it is not bad, it is good, even if it didn't cost you an arm and a leg and you got it at the grocery store or the diner. The coffee snobs can just go fuck themselves. I had two life experiences that beat the culinary snobbery out of me. Many years ago I was a tea-totaller but I decided I wanted to develop a taste for wine (because social pressure) so I started a wine tas…

What Keurig did you end up buying?

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#58

People talk about 'bad coffee' but many times they don't say what constitutes bad coffee. We all have different preferences. There are some very expensive fancy coffees that I dislike because I taste them as overly sour or acidic. Meanwhile I can drink very expensive blue mountain or a very cheap nabob full city dark in an aeropress and enjoy both. I used to occasionally get starbucks on the way to work but the line…

Coffee culture took much longer to take hold in the US (or at least it seems that way). On my travels in the US over the last 30 years the coffee went from a horrifying, watery, burnt, disgusting dish water that came out of a drip pot to acceptable espresso like the rest of the world enjoys.

Instant coffee is much closer to that peculiar American burnt drip coffee horror which is what Americans seemed to used to expect out of coffee. I think it should be termed "american coffee" just so we know what you're talking about.

Strangely, despite Starbucks using espresso machines, they managed to almost perfectly capture that burnt, watery horror which I assume is why people go there for sugar laden, syrup filled concoctions rather than just decent coffee.

Although far worse than the drip coffee is that also peculiar american invention called "coffee creamer". It's a shameful product.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#59
I like bad coffee but for different reasons (and to only up to a point): I enjoy the contrast it brings to the beans I roast myself. Sometimes I wonder if it's worth the effort or if I'm any good at it but then I try some "bad" coffee and my faith is renewed.

I have, however, gone too far in the past: I once roasted some Robusta beans just to see what they're like (some cheaper coffees are a blend of Robusta with superior Arabica beans). It was remarkably vile, even fresh: it was as though there was tire-fire in my mouth and the after-taste lingered for far too long.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can take my espresso machine from my cold dead hands. Then again I don’t understand why Americans pay so much for their coffee. Here 1kg of fairly good single origin coffee is 22€ and the quality is miles ahead of instant. You don’t have to become an insufferable snob to enjoy better coffee.

Those little stove-top espresso makers that Italians use make the best espresso. Apparently they're called Moka Pots, never knew that.

For those who are curious, link: https://www.amazon.com/Bialetti-275-06-Express-6-Cup-Espress...

Or in other words, the way to make something espresso-like when all you have is a heat source.

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