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Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

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Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#51

Post by ravel-bar-foo »

yardie wrote: post #23

> By signing a card or filling out an online authorization form, you are authorizing the ALU to speak on your behalf. Yeah, they were great at listening before. Also, where are these unions where the people in it aren't the people it represents. Recently, a school board election ad, "we have to stop the teachers union and start listening to teachers." Well, who the hell is in the teachers union if not teachers?

Larger unions sometimes hire staff to represent their interests who are do not work in the profession represented: negotiators, lawyers, etc. It sets up a bit of a principle/agent problem, but it also makes a lot of sense: a professional lawyer may be much better at negotiating on your behalf than the people from your profession who win the union elections.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#53

Post by jupp0r »

photochemsyn wrote: post #10

Realistically an Amazon-wide union is the only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China, without having any cross-border capital flow penalities (neoliberal globalism in a nutshell), then the major employers like Amazon and Walmart are going to have to double their w…

I don’t think you are taking the price increases and inefficiencies that a nationally isolated economy would produce into account. People with less disposable income would suffer most from this.

If you don’t like supply chain issues and inflation right now, you won’t like the model you propose.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#54

Post by closewith »

nxmnxm99 wrote: post #43
photochemsyn wrote: post #10

Realistically an Amazon-wide union is the only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China, without having any cross-border capital flow penalities (neoliberal globalism in a nutshell), then the major employers like Amazon and Walmart are going to have to double their w…

[flagged]

Higher prices in exchange for basic labour rights. Seems like a price worth paying to me.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#55

Post by _jal »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #14
noisy_boy wrote: post #5

> The ALU may ask you to sign an authorization card or share a QR code to fill out an online authorization card. > This is a legally binding document Ooh scary ... is the employment contract signed by Amazon's employees not legally binding? How is it Amazon's business what their grown-ass employees can or cannot sign? > By signing a card or filling out an online authorization form, you are providing the ALU your pers…

obviously amazon doesn't have a real case against unions, but they can try to use scary language to confuse people

"This will go down on your permanent record..."

-- Bezos in helium voice

I remember quitting from Krogers bagging groceries when I was a kid. I forget why, but I did give less than 2 weeks notice. Mr. Manager gravely conveyed that if I did this, I'd be barred from working for them again forever. Pretty sure my poker face then was not what it is now, but in any case I did not find that to be anywhere nearly as distressing as he seemed to think I should.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#56

Post by AdrianB1 »

bombcar wrote: post #46
JWlrCk9PkipFTDq wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK I'll bite - why?

If I were to try to guess, it's that it forces political cooperation on people under threat of not having a job. Imagine the situation where every single company in your state is a union shop (you have to join the union and pay dues if you work) - and every single union is wildly pro-gun, supporting candidates who want everyone to carry two guns (but they'll compromise to only men and only one if pushed). So to live…

I live in a country (Romania) with almost no legal guns, so I am missing some context. I thought that with the USA constitution guns are a right that "shall not be infringed", so what exactly "anti-gun" means: changing the constitution or ignoring it? Most of the news I see, people are trying to ignore it, which is basically ignoring the laws. In this case, Amazon breaking some laws seems to fit well in the picture.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#57

Post by koolba »

yardie wrote: post #23

> By signing a card or filling out an online authorization form, you are authorizing the ALU to speak on your behalf. Yeah, they were great at listening before. Also, where are these unions where the people in it aren't the people it represents. Recently, a school board election ad, "we have to stop the teachers union and start listening to teachers." Well, who the hell is in the teachers union if not teachers?

> Well, who the hell is in the teachers union if not teachers?

Professional bureaucrats.

Teachers unions in public schools are the worst. They hold our childrens’ futures hostage and get paid out by politicians buying votes, who pass the bill to the next generation.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#58

Post by hiddencost »

nxmnxm99 wrote: post #43
photochemsyn wrote: post #10

Realistically an Amazon-wide union is the only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China, without having any cross-border capital flow penalities (neoliberal globalism in a nutshell), then the major employers like Amazon and Walmart are going to have to double their w…

[flagged]

We're comfortable that you'll have to pay sightly more for disposable plastic crap if it means we're not destroying worker's bodies.

I'd argue that in the long term, having healthier & happier workers who see their interests aligned with the rest of the economy will lead Amazon workers to develop skills more in demand, commit fewer crimes, take better care of their health, and contribute to their communities

Why do libertarians and ancaps always sound like they took a 101 econ course and actually like it when people suffer?

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#59

Post by mschuster91 »

jstanley wrote: post #29
jimnotgym wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK the police are neither allowed to form a union or strike.

How can you ban people from going on strike? The entire point of a strike is that you're not working when you're supposed to be.

In Germany, police officers, soldiers and (depending on the state) teachers and other sort of public officials swear an oath of office that bans them from strikes ("Beamte").

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#60

Post by ch4s3 »

rapnie wrote: post #16
photochemsyn wrote: post #10

Realistically an Amazon-wide union is the only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China, without having any cross-border capital flow penalities (neoliberal globalism in a nutshell), then the major employers like Amazon and Walmart are going to have to double their w…

> Yes, that means less for the executives and shareholders. They may have to sell some of their properties, oh dear. Unrealistic, in neoliberalism.

This doesn’t mean anything. Markets mature and margins decline. All firms have to compete for labor, and the market for labor has tightened. However during an inflationary environment it’s pretty easy to raise prices.

They’ll eventually build higher labor costs into their financial projects and pass along some of the costs. Shareholders probably won’t care much, because Amazon is still a good investment.

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