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Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

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Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#51

Post by emmelaich »

phs318u wrote: post #48
roody15 wrote: post #29

I am a bit older and have worked in IT now for almost 2 decades. (44 years old) I honestly think the general premise here holds true and perhaps applies to many of us here in computed related occupations. It seems many of us focused on STEM STEM STEM or COMPUTERS COMPUTERS COMPUTERS in education but perhaps are emotionally infantile to an extent. How many of us write programs, support infrastructure, design gadgets ……

I used to worry about being "successful" until I had an epiphany triggered by my father's death. Do you want to know what success is? Visualise the day of your funeral. Who is there? Are they sad, devastated, in tears? Are they looking at their watch or relieved you're finally gone? What does it say on your headstone? "Here lies roody15. Beloved father, husband, son. Forever in our hearts" Or will it say, "Here lies…

Whoa, I thought

> Beloved father, husband, son. Forever in our hearts"

was brutally generic but then ...

> He was a good employee

Which is worse than "he was a decent man" [0]. Oof.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Stone_(character)

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#52

Post by kelseyfrog »

abrichr wrote: post #47
kelseyfrog wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has taken a conscious expressed interest in becoming intimately familiar with the world of social interaction and emotion, critically examining this mindset is the first step toward realizing that growth. The "measurable equals real" assumption while a fine heuristic, is just that, a generalization useful for making quick judgements, but leaves a lot on the table - empathy, emotion, personal interactio…

> The difference is striking. Dropping an absolute reliance on Cartesian rationality opened the door for real human connection. I've recently started allowing myself to think in this direction. Can you please provide some specific examples of what this looks like?

I can, but they are so specific to my circumstances, that it would not help. Sorry. I truly do wish you find your own path and would be thrilled to hear how you achieve it. :)

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#53

Post by totetsu »

pineaux wrote: post #17
engineer_22 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment drips with conspiracy, but is hard to trifle with.

Actually, it's sort of a proven conspiracy. Edward Bernays (Freud's nephew and student) went to America and basically invented modern advertisement. His system of propaganda found its way back to the likes of Goebbels and other unsavory types. "The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen m…

I think I first heard about this form Adam Curtis’s 2002 documentary for the BBC, The Century of the Self, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s&feature=youtu.b

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#54

Post by [deleted] »

phs318u wrote: post #48
roody15 wrote: post #29

I am a bit older and have worked in IT now for almost 2 decades. (44 years old) I honestly think the general premise here holds true and perhaps applies to many of us here in computed related occupations. It seems many of us focused on STEM STEM STEM or COMPUTERS COMPUTERS COMPUTERS in education but perhaps are emotionally infantile to an extent. How many of us write programs, support infrastructure, design gadgets ……

I used to worry about being "successful" until I had an epiphany triggered by my father's death. Do you want to know what success is? Visualise the day of your funeral. Who is there? Are they sad, devastated, in tears? Are they looking at their watch or relieved you're finally gone? What does it say on your headstone? "Here lies roody15. Beloved father, husband, son. Forever in our hearts" Or will it say, "Here lies…

[deleted]

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#55

Post by robocat »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #7

> exponential progress in the material and technological fields combined with perplexing stasis in the psychological one. That's not an accident. Nor a failing in the many timeless tools of emotional education - literature, drama and other arts. It's deliberate and systematic. Ever since Edward Bernays the power of Wall Street has been directed at stripping our emotional centres of everything but blind selfish desire…

> It's deliberate and systematic

I think that implies a belief in a total dominance power hierarchy (with absolute power at the apex of one or many). God, USA#1, world conspiracies, lizard men, etcetera. Personally, I haven’t seen any evidence that exists. If complete power domination exists why would it be hidden, and isn’t most everyone powerless to fight against omnipotence? To fix capitalism in this case would require becoming part of the apex, which seems unlikely.

Another belief could be that the actions of the reptile brainstems of 8 billion people create outcomes that result in emergent system behaviours that are bizarre and unpredictable (from the perspective of a simple human). If capitalism is a systematic outcome of billions, then to fix it requires systematic changes to how humans act. Education? Fascism? Enlightenment? As a starting point, we can try to understand how emergent systems occur, regardless of how complex that task is, however the cyclomatic nature of human systems is that the systems change and become more complex as we discover anything about them!

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#56

Post by lucas_membrane »

sshine wrote: post #19
engineer_22 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what they say... opinions are like **holes, everyone has one and they all stink... wait wrong aphorism. ... OK I've got it: Advice is only worth what you pay for it. I guess either one works here...

So... €38.99 on Amazon?

One thing about Alain de Botton that mystifies me is that he was born into a family with 9-digit wealth, and he apparently likes piling up comparatively small sums by monetizing his philosophy habit. Successful authors of multiple books typically write some as an outlet for their genius and some because they need or cannot pass up the money. What motivates him? How much of his writing is outsourced?

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#57

Post by simonebrunozzi »

The School of Life is really interesting, and I've read some of Alain De Botton's previous work. I still have to wrap my mind about whether I should really dive deep into his stuff, or not.

Any of you knows his work extensively, and can provide an opinion?

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#58

Post by mandmandam »

robocat wrote: post #55
nonrandomstring wrote: post #7

> exponential progress in the material and technological fields combined with perplexing stasis in the psychological one. That's not an accident. Nor a failing in the many timeless tools of emotional education - literature, drama and other arts. It's deliberate and systematic. Ever since Edward Bernays the power of Wall Street has been directed at stripping our emotional centres of everything but blind selfish desire…

> It's deliberate and systematic I think that implies a belief in a total dominance power hierarchy (with absolute power at the apex of one or many). God, USA#1, world conspiracies, lizard men, etcetera. Personally, I haven’t seen any evidence that exists. If complete power domination exists why would it be hidden, and isn’t most everyone powerless to fight against omnipotence? To fix capitalism in this case would re…

> I think that implies a belief in a total dominance power hierarchy

It doesn't. Not at all.

It just acknowledges the existence of an industry which spends ~300 billion dollars a year in the US alone. [0] Not exactly hidden.

[0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/272314/advertising-spend...

Emergent systems are cool to understand and all, but don't forget: “People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.” - Adam Smith

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#59

Post by amelius »

roody15 wrote: post #29

I am a bit older and have worked in IT now for almost 2 decades. (44 years old) I honestly think the general premise here holds true and perhaps applies to many of us here in computed related occupations. It seems many of us focused on STEM STEM STEM or COMPUTERS COMPUTERS COMPUTERS in education but perhaps are emotionally infantile to an extent. How many of us write programs, support infrastructure, design gadgets ……

Yes, beside bringing in some money, having spent your life as a programmer will not make you a better person than if you had spent your career solving crossword puzzles.

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#60

Post by barrysteve »

roody15 wrote: post #29

I am a bit older and have worked in IT now for almost 2 decades. (44 years old) I honestly think the general premise here holds true and perhaps applies to many of us here in computed related occupations. It seems many of us focused on STEM STEM STEM or COMPUTERS COMPUTERS COMPUTERS in education but perhaps are emotionally infantile to an extent. How many of us write programs, support infrastructure, design gadgets ……

>It seems many of us focused on STEM STEM STEM or COMPUTERS COMPUTERS COMPUTERS in education but perhaps are emotionally infantile to an extent. ... How many of us write programs, support infrastructure, design gadgets … for what? What is important ? Our job… buying gadgets… traveling..

Steve Jobs always wanted to hire people who had a liberal arts education. He knew there was more to making tech objects than stem.

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