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Vim 9.0

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Re: Vim 9.0

#51

Post by kirillbobyrev »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #4

I'm curious: - How deep a rabbit hole do most people go down when setting up their vim / neovim environment? Apart from setting up a preferred color and language specific tab spacing and highlighting, I don't need more, but I've seen some pretty fancy setups. Out of the different plugins, which would you never operate without?

I've spent so much time on configuring my (Neo)vim over the years I wouldn't even be able to estimate it (here it is if you're curious: https://github.com/kirillbobyrev/dotfiles/tree/main/.config/...).

The most important ones lately seem to be the LSP integrations (basically IDE features like autocompletion, go-to-definition etc) and auto-completion managers. But honestly it's been breaking all the time over the last year or so that I code more often in VSCode and maybe it's about time I stop trying to make an ever-improving IDE out of Neovim :(

Neovim project's direction seems to be aligned with making it easier to have IDE-like experience with LSP integration but it's been painful in Neovim. In Vim, it's typically even worse and even harder to set it up.

Overall, I've been using Vim for about 8 years and went from a really simple set-up of "this is just a text editor" down the IDE rabbit hole. I also went for Vim -> Neovim -> Vim -> Neovim and eventual split of the two configs in the end and. I'm thinking about making it much simpler again :D

Re: Vim 9.0

#53

Post by kzrdude »

tomtomtom777 wrote: post #39
capableweb wrote: post #20

As Vim9 comes alive, and Neovim community focuses on Lua plugins instead, it seems this release is finally the update that will put a hard branch on the two communities. Up until now, most plugins (except Lua-only ones of course) have worked in both editors, but it doesn't seem like Vim9 will be supported in Neovim, so I guess what people go with now, will decide what you might stick with in the future (unless you're…

Although I am currently tip-toeing on NeoVim, I still feel this is a horrible break-up. Yes, Open Source simply allows you to branch whenever you're unhappy with the original but this comes at a cost for the community. The cost of having two diverging programs to deal with. In this case, the motivation was simply insufficient. Some people wanted vimscript+lua instead of vimscript. They felt the code was too difficult…

Neovim has already been very productive by giving Vim some good competition and in so doing having better features come out in Vim.

To me it doesn't make sense to 'hate' neovim for wanting to develop features that they tried to have in Vim but couldn't due to the main developer stalling it.

Re: Vim 9.0

#54

Post by gkfasdfasdf »

the_duke wrote: post #3

I'm curious how many users are now using vim versus neovim. I switched a few years ago,and ever since Lua plugin support the Neovim ecosystem is thriving.

I switched over to neovim a few years ago and haven't looked back. The embedded language server is awesome.

Re: Vim 9.0

#55

Post by BaculumMeumEst »

undoware wrote: post #25

I loved vi for decades, but I don't miss it. Neovim is my current go-to but even this feels stodgy these days. Helix Editor is probably my future -- it manages to have just the right features, but with saner defaults and syntax -- but it will take a while for me to work up the nerve to let go of the investment in muscle memory.

I don't think going all in on treesitter is very practical, considering basic python indentation has not been functional for over a year. I think Helix is a little bit too much of niche layered on niche, and Kakoune is much better all around in my experience.

https://github.com/nvim-treesitter/nvim-treesitter/issues/80...

Re: Vim 9.0

#56

Post by krylon »

bcrescimanno wrote: post #9
the_duke wrote: post #3

I'm curious how many users are now using vim versus neovim. I switched a few years ago,and ever since Lua plugin support the Neovim ecosystem is thriving.

This comment thread on the previous conversation has a lot of good replies: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31908731 A few highlights: * "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" * People don't like Lua (or just simply prefer VimScript) * Divergence over time means that they are not still compatible.

> People don't like Lua

Who doesn't like Lua? That is right up there next to disliking kittens and puppies...

Re: Vim 9.0

#57

Post by kzrdude »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #4

I'm curious: - How deep a rabbit hole do most people go down when setting up their vim / neovim environment? Apart from setting up a preferred color and language specific tab spacing and highlighting, I don't need more, but I've seen some pretty fancy setups. Out of the different plugins, which would you never operate without?

I'd always use airline and show a buffer line with it.

Re: Vim 9.0

#58

Post by cassepipe »

undoware wrote: post #25

I loved vi for decades, but I don't miss it. Neovim is my current go-to but even this feels stodgy these days. Helix Editor is probably my future -- it manages to have just the right features, but with saner defaults and syntax -- but it will take a while for me to work up the nerve to let go of the investment in muscle memory.

I am currently looking forward Helix too. I like the Kakoune philosophy (Object - Action rather than the contrary) better and I like the out of the box experience they are aiming at.

I never really enjoyed having to configure vim. What I like about vim is the idea of modal editing which and the fact it runs and interacts in/with the shell. Still waiting a bit more before making the jump.

Re: Vim 9.0

#59

Post by bobbylarrybobby »

tomtomtom777 wrote: post #39
capableweb wrote: post #20

As Vim9 comes alive, and Neovim community focuses on Lua plugins instead, it seems this release is finally the update that will put a hard branch on the two communities. Up until now, most plugins (except Lua-only ones of course) have worked in both editors, but it doesn't seem like Vim9 will be supported in Neovim, so I guess what people go with now, will decide what you might stick with in the future (unless you're…

Although I am currently tip-toeing on NeoVim, I still feel this is a horrible break-up. Yes, Open Source simply allows you to branch whenever you're unhappy with the original but this comes at a cost for the community. The cost of having two diverging programs to deal with. In this case, the motivation was simply insufficient. Some people wanted vimscript+lua instead of vimscript. They felt the code was too difficult…

I think Neovim had a whole bunch of other reasons to split. I'm pretty sure that Neovim's server mode, which allows it to be used with other editor frontends, is simply not present in vim. For me this is the whole reason to use Neovim. But I think it also natively supports tree sitter and/or LSPs, which really improve the coding experience.

Anyway iirc Neovim wanted these features integrated into Vim itself and only started a separate project when it became clear that that wasn't going to happen. My understanding was that at the time Bram was hostile to lots of the changes that people wanted integrated. You can read some of the discussion [here](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14245705) and [here](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7287668)

Re: Vim 9.0

#60

Post by mr_toad »

pbohun wrote: post #29
Diederich wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using vi/vim on a near daily basis for 34 years now and this is the only thing I put in ~/.vimrc: set tabstop=4 set expandtab set shiftwidth=4 " or 2 or whatever set shiftround syntax on EDIT: Just for some fun archeology, I google searched on the 3rd line, 'set shiftwidth=4 " or 2 or whatever' because I very dimly recall copying most of my standard set (minus the syntax on bit) from someone else a long lon…

Doesn't expandtab mess with creating/editing makefiles?

It’s been a while but I seem to remember being able to configure different tab behaviour specifically for make files.
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