Does anyone know what the adoption rate is for the App Store for Mac ? How many apps in the App Store cannot be downloaded outside of the App Store ? How many apps converted from being downloaded outside the App Store to inside. My question is, can Apple put the Genie back in the bottle ?
Why the Mac App Sandbox makes me sad
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Re: Why the Mac App Sandbox makes me sad
#52In general, this type of sandbox is a Good Thing. I would love to live in a world where the default environment for any program is a very limited sandbox that can only interact with the outside world via standardized UI elements. That is, outside a data store specific to the application, it can only access files via the standard dialogs, and so forth. The potential for malware distribution would be significantly redu…
I just watched the Apple developer videos about App Sandboxing and have to agree that it in most cases it's a good thing.
With that new enthusiasm I went ahead and tried the AppSandboxQuickStart code sample that loads a webpage in a WebKit WebView.
Enabled sandboxing, app failed because of missing network.client entitlement. Enabled that as the tutorial said to get it to work: app still fails.
Turns out that the WebView, or rather the Flash plugin is trying to load the AIR apps that are installed (why, I have no clue, I was loading apple.com).
>WebProcess(1319) deny file-read-data /Users/me/Library/Application Support/Adobe/AIR/ELS/com.prezi.PreziDesktop/PrivateEncryptedDatak
The app didn't start at all. Only hint were errors in the Console. As a developer I'm afraid that those "perceived crashes", that's what they will look like to users, will become a common theme.
Re: Why the Mac App Sandbox makes me sad
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Give it a release or two and app store will be the only way to get software on your locked down appliance owned by Apple.
If this happens they will effectively kill off a huge number of professional services, especially in the media industry. I'm not looking forward to a future where I have to look to Windows or Unix as my main development platform.
Sad thing is Mac OS X is a certified UNIX.
Re: Why the Mac App Sandbox makes me sad
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
AudioUnit plugins have strict realtime requirements that won't work with message passing too. If Apple disallows plugins that will be the end of the Mac as a pro audio platform. Not that a lot of plugin developers would mind so much after the insane platform churn at Cupertino in this last decade, but it's hard for me to imagine Apple would go that far.
Apple can't get out of Pro market fast enough. They already killed XServe, they "deprecated" Java, which means no chance in hell anyone will try to host their app server on Mac, and now even develop on Mac, they haven't updated their Pro audio software in almost 5 years, the fiasco with FCP X (complete rejection from actual pro users), and most recent rumor they will kill off Mac Pro as well. Apple wants to be handhe…
They killed XServe because it belonged in a market where Apple was insignificant, they weren't selling any. Java now has to be installed separately like on all other platforms. Logic was last updated in August.
Re: Why the Mac App Sandbox makes me sad
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
This would worry me if the AppStore were the only way to get aplications on to your Mac. I can see it being very disapointing for developers who enjoyed the convenience of the AppStore, but need additional functions. But I guess they will have to sell ex-Store I can also see the benefit of Apple being able to say that 'Anything you buy on the Store is safe(tm)'. However if Apple every makes teh Appstore a compulsory…
Knowing Apple's achievements in pwn2own, this most likely won't increase the real security... Whatever you do, security always boils down to aware user, thus it is in fundamental contradiction to this company philosophy.
Besides security, sandboxing is a good way to protect the User's system from poorly written apps.
Re: Why the Mac App Sandbox makes me sad
#56I thought 1Password 3.9 (the MAS version) was already using App Sandboxing and I don't feel limited at all. Dropbox syncing works fine like before and browser extensions works better than before (without all the ugly InputManager hacks). Basing on this one app I often use, I'm overall happy with sandboxing so far.
+1
The article makes some strong assertions about what is/is not allowable under the currently available set of entitlements. I expected more discussion here about whether all of those assertions are accurate.
If there's a primary source that I can take a shot at interpreting independently, can someone point me toward it?
UPDATE: Looks like the best doc is the "App Sandbox Design Guide". Film at 11. :P
Re: Why the Mac App Sandbox makes me sad
#57Don't they distribute xcode via appstore? it obviously dould not fit in the sandbox. If they make it an exception, can't they be hammered for monopolizing the development tools in the app store for themself?
Re: Why the Mac App Sandbox makes me sad
#58In general, this type of sandbox is a Good Thing. I would love to live in a world where the default environment for any program is a very limited sandbox that can only interact with the outside world via standardized UI elements. That is, outside a data store specific to the application, it can only access files via the standard dialogs, and so forth. The potential for malware distribution would be significantly redu…
On what the article claims: my understanding is that the sandbox restricts all non-user initiated actions. That is, if a user initiates it by clicking, dragging, OK-ing, etc., then all the old system interactions are still allowed. If you want to take a screenshot, of course you can so long as the user hits a keyboard combo to do it. Where it's a real hurdle, however, is for those programs who have to monitor and int…
In that situation, would the user be able to enable a persistent permission? Whereby I allow the app to check as often as it needs to?
Re: Why the Mac App Sandbox makes me sad
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Give it a release or two and app store will be the only way to get software on your locked down appliance owned by Apple.
If this happens they will effectively kill off a huge number of professional services, especially in the media industry. I'm not looking forward to a future where I have to look to Windows or Unix as my main development platform.
they will effectively kill off a huge number of professional services, especially in the media industry.
Apple has already demonstrated several times over that the professional market isn't really of much interest to them anymore. Witness the disaster of Final Cut Pro X and the gradual phasing out of the Mac Pro hardware line.
Apple's focus is squarely on the consumer market. Though it may seem unlikely today that they will permanently ban non AppStore apps, I wouldn't cite the professional market as a reason for it to not happen.
Re: Why the Mac App Sandbox makes me sad
#60Ultimately, for me, this is about creating a reasonable user experience for the majority of users. While it's easy to forget this when spending a lot of time in forums such as HN, _we_ are not that majority. This constant expectation that platforms used everyday by millions of people should be tailored to us is untenable.
I don't know..
I think allot of people here underestimate the average user.
I see allot of comments on this site of people basically saying "everyone else just uses the computer for facebook".
That's not really true, although there are users like that. I know allot of people who are not technical or CS people in the HN sense but who use their computers for allot of stuff including some pretty sophisticated creative or business tasks and are actually quite capable of doing technical stuff assuming it is explained properly to them.
Also people on HN have probably spent more time using computers and seeing lots of different users use computers that we probably have more of a long term feel of what would work well and what wouldn't, and if we are all developing the next generation of apps etc for the masses then our opinions and requirements are actually pretty important.
If you have an over restrictive platform that does not allow developers to innovate in ways that they want then whilst end users may appreciate the simplicity, they will become frustrated if this platform fails to deliver the flexible applications that they really want. For example I know many non tech users who use literally hundreds of firefox plugins.
Of course there are a few people I know who are of the opinion that all hardware & software for everything should just be developed by Apple end of story.