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Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

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Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#51

Post by dcow »

subtract-smiles wrote: post #17
Cyclical wrote: post #13

While very cool and seemingly well-designed, this seems like a derivative of the lock developed by the YouTuber StuffMadeHere. A little strange to see someone applying for a patent for a version of someone else's design.

I agree, it seems a little strange. I also seem to recall that the LockPickingLawyer was able to break that lock using two separate methods that I didn't see addressed in the article, so I wonder how much this person just copied StuffMadeHere..

LPL “cheated” when picking SMH’s lock but still provided valuable feedback. Both weaknesses he found are easily fixed. In one case he could walk the deadbolt back because of a precision error/oversight in SMH’s lock. The other he stuck a small shim between the door and the lock to tension the second tumbler which is not an issue with this lock and easily fixed on SMH’s lock by closing the back with a plate.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#52

Post by lisper »

EMIRELADERO wrote: post #49
lisper wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, that disc-detainer pick is the one thing that is not available for sale on covertinstruments. I went looking for it the other day and it's not listed at all, not even as "out of stock".

It's actually sold by Sparrows https://www.sparrowslockpicks.com/product_p/DISCT.htm

Ah! Thanks!

Gotta love the description:

The Community Disc pick

Blah blah blah blah Lock picking lawyer blah blah blah Bosnian Bill blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Over a year blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Pandemic blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah so many emails blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Isolation blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah back on carbs blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Ties and no playoffs? Why do you even do this? blah blah Zip ties blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Lucky Saskwatch blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Stop touching your face still applies blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Black Finish blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah This is the way.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#53

Post by paulpauper »

csours wrote: post #47

What's the threat model? Does this lock secure a location that has no windows? Can a sledgehammer be used to open the door? Ok, so maybe covert entry is harder. Do you care THAT much about covert entry? If you care that much about covert entry, do you also have video monitoring? Security solutions need to be used in context.

if it's really important, then the lock is probably never going to be enough. you probably want a vault

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#54

Post by girvo »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #50
Cyclical wrote: post #13

While very cool and seemingly well-designed, this seems like a derivative of the lock developed by the YouTuber StuffMadeHere. A little strange to see someone applying for a patent for a version of someone else's design.

The concepts employed in the StuffMadeHere video were derived from techniques used in other pick-resistant locks. His implementation is unique, of course, but he also derived his lock from other existing techniques. There’s a big world of lock design and research out there, and I doubt this company simply decided to rip off a YouTuber.

> and I doubt this company simply decided to rip off a YouTuber.

While you’re likely right, YouTubers are massive in terms of reach and popularity, and there are heaps of cases where companies have done exactly that…

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#55

Post by jefftk »

voldacar wrote: post #26

This actually might be unpickable. But the small space of keys (6^6 combinations) makes me think you could just fabricate every single key and test them one by one, if you were really determined

It looks extensible to me? I don't see anything keeping you from making it 6x (or 36x) harder by adding one or two more pins.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#56

Post by dcow »

EMIRELADERO wrote: post #49
lisper wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, that disc-detainer pick is the one thing that is not available for sale on covertinstruments. I went looking for it the other day and it's not listed at all, not even as "out of stock".

It's actually sold by Sparrows https://www.sparrowslockpicks.com/product_p/DISCT.htm

TY! I’d been looking for this as well.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#57

Post by subtract-smiles »

dcow wrote: post #51
subtract-smiles wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, it seems a little strange. I also seem to recall that the LockPickingLawyer was able to break that lock using two separate methods that I didn't see addressed in the article, so I wonder how much this person just copied StuffMadeHere..

LPL “cheated” when picking SMH’s lock but still provided valuable feedback. Both weaknesses he found are easily fixed. In one case he could walk the deadbolt back because of a precision error/oversight in SMH’s lock. The other he stuck a small shim between the door and the lock to tension the second tumbler which is not an issue with this lock and easily fixed on SMH’s lock by closing the back with a plate.

Oh, I see.

I'm no expert but at least I understand the things LPL did a but better now.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#58

Post by andrewflnr »

csours wrote: post #47

What's the threat model? Does this lock secure a location that has no windows? Can a sledgehammer be used to open the door? Ok, so maybe covert entry is harder. Do you care THAT much about covert entry? If you care that much about covert entry, do you also have video monitoring? Security solutions need to be used in context.

Your points are technically true but effectively vacuous, equally applicable to all possible door locks. Is there someone claiming that just because this lock is (allegedly) unpickable, it's a complete security solution, so that you felt you had to comment on the importance of other approaches to security?

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#59

Post by threeseed »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #31
threeseed wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A little strange to see someone applying for a patent for a version of someone else's design. Apparently it's common depending on the country you live. Some countries have a first-to-file versus a first-to-invent patent system. And so you end up with people (often inventors or retired lawyers) who spend their days filing patents for other people's inventions. The idea being that they only need one or two of the pat…

Even in the US, which is first to file, your patent can be invalidated by published prior art that makes it obvious. The stuff made here video is a textbook example of an invalidating piece of prior art.

The problem is that the patent system tends to just approve anything that meets a certain quality threshold. And then they leave it up to the courts to adjudicate whether a patent is invalidated due to prior act.

And so rather than litigate, roll the dice and potentially strengthen the patent's standing sometimes it's easier just to negotiate a deal with them.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#60

Post by Cerium »

mNovak wrote: post #38

This does seem like it might be vulnerable to a comb pick attack, if you can push all those wafer stacks into the sliding bar.

Oh. Very nice. If the wafer is the same thickness as the bar, and the springs allow enough room that should work.
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